doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com 8x57JR Rimmed?

I don't know where to ask this on the forum but since it is a German gun and cartridge I thought I would put it here!

I own a drilling: 16x16-8x57JR, Greifelt of Suhl.

I use RWS ammo for the rifle and it is clearly rimmed as in the pics below:





However, a friend recently brought me some Sellier & Bellot ammo marked on the box 8x57JR:



As is the ammo:



But, as is quite clear from the cartridge laid on top of the others from the same box, it is rimless!


My pathetic attempt to show the rimlessness and the head markings.

Now is the "R" in "JR" for "Rimmed"( as I thought and obviously may well be wrong) or does it denote a difference in diameter between the "JR" and the "S" bullets?

Thanks for any clarification in advance.

All the best

Skeeterbd

I & J were interchangable in the language of the Germans when these cartridges were developed. So IR = JR or Infanterie Rand. Unless the drilling wears a S stamp or if you've slugged the bore & it warrants a S diameter, stick with the IR. Course if you've slugged the bore you'll know the diameter. R = Rand(rimmed).

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr

Thanks!

I use and will stick with the IR which the drilling delivers with astounding accuracy.

But if R is for Rand = rimmed ( I am sure you are right) then why are the S&B cartridges marked IR and are rimless!

All the best

Skeeterbd

Rebated? Those S&B's are for a bolt gun & not tip-up.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Agreed they are probably for a bolt.

But since they are rimless the R should not be in the head stamping surely!

I suspect that S&B have screwed up somehow and have either misstamped a J cartridge case with JR. or worse, they have misstamped an S cartridge meant for a bolt gun with JR.
Bullet diameter measurements would sort the latter out but as I don't intend to use them it will be sometime before I get around to it.

Thanks again

All the best

Skeeterbd

Skeeterbd,
S&B is an old line company and knows very well the difference between the rimmed JR and the rimless J cartridges.While I don't have the cartridges "in hand" to check,I see signs that they have had original rims removed.I speculate that a non-handloader had a bolt action rifle chambered for 8x57J and arranged for the rim of 8x57R cartridges to be removed, without changing the marks on the box and headstamp.There seems to be a great gnashing of teeth when it turns out that a rifle was intended for J ammo(.318)and this seems to be a novel way to make ammo;it seems to have somehow made it to your friend that had no way to know it had been modified. Your intention to continue using JR ammo is fine, but be advised that unmodified S&B ammo will also work.
Mike

Der Ami

I think you are absolutely right.

I am also aware of the long lineage of S&B and have used a lot of their shotgun ammo (thousands of rounds) and indeed still have a few rounds of their unmodified 8x57JR with the correct rims which is why I was surprised by this lot of ammo.

Thanks again and if I am really ever stuck for ammo I will fire these off and stick a cleaning rod down the muzzle for extraction purposes (probably ruin my gun)!
Thanks for the clarification. Again I think you are spot on!

All the best

Skeeterbd