doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com F.A. Loomis 12ga Hammergun - Information???

The Williams, Fred'k, i have has IXL no. 9 on both side-plates and the top rib before the dolls head extension, but other than that the engraving is almost identical. Locking bolt looks identical as well. I'll try to post pics for comparison. I spoke with Jack Rowe before I purchased it to ascertain his feedback and he told me he knew Fred. Williams and Company well as that was his first place of employment upon entering the gun trade in Birmingham.

Do you think the no. 9, 20, and 45 were model numbers? I shoot mine on a regular basis for SC. Fits me well and breaks clays with low pressure 3/4 loads.

The H&D Folsom agent in Belgium, at least through 1914, was Louis Muller of Liege.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20m/a%20muller%20gb.htm
He was also a gun maker and registered twelve trademarks 1889 to 1894 including I.X.L.

Any chance for a pic of the proofs? It looks like the provisional proofs will help solve this puzzle. I find DocDrew's post compelling, perhaps lending credence to the theory that after 1890 Folsom began sourcing the Loomis guns from Belgium. My Loomis, an IXL No.18, has a full set of Birmingham proofs. Folsom may have "Read the Tea Leaves" of the protectionism of the day and made the jump by engaging a Belgian agent in 1889...

"Louie, we're about to be messed with. Quick, go register "IXL" as your trademark!"

I have to dig out my list, but I believe that Models 9, 20, and 45 were all on it. I can't differentiate if the guns were made in either England or Belgium, though.

Regards
Ken

Interesting that the IXL No.18 is a Birmingham gun, yet the IXL models 20 and possibly the 45 are Belgian. I wonder if this is significant as far as the model numbers. I'll try to track it from now on.

susjwp,

Which city proofed the No. 9? Was it confirmed to be Birmingham? I assume so since it's a F Williams.

Utah,

The same question for your No. 45?

Drew,

Happen to know the English/Birmingham agent for Folsom in the pre-1890 years?

DocDrew's reference to Muller, with the possible connection to the "W Richards" mark, makes me wonder if those guns were made by the same Makers. They also were made in first England and later Belgium, and W Richards, I believe, was a Folsom trade name as well. Or, it was another Birmingham firm initially, but going to Muller when the switch was made.

Anyone happen to have any info and pricing, for a comparison between F A Loomis and W Richards?

Regards
Ken

I don't know the Birmingham agent for Folsom, but Vorisek lists several of the I.X.L. guns as by Joseph Bourne & Co.
This may be Joseph Bourne and Sons of Bath Street, St. Mary's Row, Birmingham.

Ah, thanks.

Joseph Bourne & Co was another company that I found "Loomis" associated with. I need to dig up my notes. Now I remember having to dig through all the references to the pottery company of the same name. Now, I'm wondering if the "IXL" mark was owned by Folsom's Birmingham agent, whoever that may have been.

I wonder what "IXL" is supposed to mean? It's "39" in Roman Numerals..

Utah,

I don't mean to take over your thread. This subject has been driving me nuts for more than a year, nearly two..

It's slang for "I EXCEL".

SRH

Seriously? What is that, a 19th Century texting lexicon? Awww, you're "pullin' my leg"! or, "jerkin' my chain"!

Well, it is listed as a slang meaning. It still seems kind'a hokey to me, especially for the time..

After thinking about it a while, it's not really any worse than many of the other Trade Names of the time...

Have at it. Causes not the slightest bit or problem for me. We're all learning.