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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651 |
Posts about re-stocking cost and barrel sleeve cost make me reflect about purchases I have made and regretted. Perhaps others will learn from my mistakes or at least laugh that they are not the only ones who make them. No names, no accusations of being wronged or tricked into spending money. Just guns bought that should have been left not bought. No more project guns.
First, are all the guns with bad barrels I have bought are a mistake purchase. I know we all think we will find a second set of barrels for that ejector Smith, Fox, Remington, Lefever or whatever. The number of good barrels out there, to find and fit is about a tenth of one percent of the demand at best. Guns with bad barrels are just that, guns with bad barrels. I have got ten or more that I have been waiting to find orphan barrels to make good.
Second, is any project gun. I've got three plus safes full of them. Some are missing little things like fore-ends with metal. Some need repairs, some need restocking, some need to be redone. Fifty plus of them at last count. Might as well part them out. But I still hold out hope and since they are paid for I'll just wait a little longer. And not one of them could be donor guns for barrels. I looked at them and my luck does not run in that direction. How bad is it you ask to have that many project guns? Figure fifty guns at five hundred to a thousand each or more could buy half a dozen really, really nice guns not needing anything but to be used. Project guns tie up money that could be used to buy better guns in the long run.
Third, is any gun needing to be restocked should not be bought. Broken stocks, missing stock, stocks with so much drop they are best shot from the hip. Stocks butchered by others. Stocks worn into splinters just due to age. Oil soaked stocks that are just about to turn into mush. Hint if you have three dozen of them you will never get them done even if you buy your own stock duplicating machine. I know first hand because I have done it and some are still waiting to get done. Well to tell the truth the first dozen got done fairly fast but the second dozen have been a long process and I made the mistake of buying more.
Four, buying a bigger safe or multiple safes will just get filled up no matter how big they are. Worse build a gun room that holds several hundred is a major, major mistake. Do not ask me how I learned that lesson. My safes are full again with projects and guns for thieves to find instead of the good stuff and the gun room is full also. It does keep my wife from counting them at least.
Five, learning about a "new" make of double is not supposed to be motivation to buy one or more of them. If people just did not make them seem so great I would not be tempted to buy one for myself. I remember reading about the side opening SupperBritte O/U which were made back before I was born. They seemed like such a great novelty I just had to buy one for myself at major expense. Ten years later a whole pile of them were found and finished up by G&H for less than I paid for mine. With my gun I went from being a very good shooter to one of the worse shooters, in recorded memory, with it in my hands. If forced to commit suicide with that gun I would have been required to reload it twice. Sides of barns were completely safe from the inside and out side.
Six, never buy a "shooter" if you want a pristine gun. Shooting a gun is never enough if you get the "collecting" bug. If a C grade Fox is what you want having five Sterlingworths and several A grades will not fulfill that desire. And never buy a worn out gun thinking it will do until a better condition one comes along. You want, what you want and things will just not make you happy settling for less.
Seven, never be afraid to shoot a gun you have bought. If you can not shoot it for fear of decreasing it's value it might as well be in someones collection. If the gun is in shoot-able condition it can and should be shot. They are guns, not fragile works of art. Owning a gun and not being willing to fire it is like marring a beautiful woman and not sleeping with her to preserve her virginity.
Eight, there are no worse investments than guns for retirement. I have known some very smart financial advisers and not one of them have included guns in their portfolio. Guns are toys, not instruments of return, for your financial future.
Nine, no matter how much you know about a gun or a make of guns you can and will learn something new if you just keep your mouth shut and listen to others. Boards like this are great if you take everything with a grain of salt and consider what you know is not always fact. And worse some facts change over time.
Ten, if you have too many hobbies, no matter how much money or time you invest in them you will always be trying to add more to them. Doubles guns, rifles, Clay target shooting venues, live birds, hunting, dog training, gun repairs, stock work, checkering, woodworking, you name it.
In the end the best time I have spent is time spent with my kids shooting and getting them interested in shooting. To that end each of my kids are getting ten plus guns to share with their kinds in the future. A matched pair of .22's, a couple of doubles, a couple of rifles, several guns for clay targets. One each for son or daughter and child. If time permits and I last long enough, I will make sure each grandchild gets their own starter collection. Just no project guns or things of mine to finish.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357 |
Words of wisdom, right there. Perhaps one should only consider shooters that are cosmetically challenged for their project guns. Needs blue on the barrels, finish on the stock or a new pad. Keep shooting it until you work up the gumption to do the work.
Somedays, a cosmetically challenged gun is a bunch of fun, either for shooting, or, working on the needs it may have.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
KY Jon:
On your items one through four, what was your reasoning for buying worn out guns that needed so much work.... price..?
Your advice is good, just wondering what your mind set was at the time you accumulated so many in such poor shape...?
I think Homeless jOe said it best when he used to call worn out guns "Cracker Barrel" guns to the shock of many on here.
I have always made it a requirement to buy guns that have had no alterations, no cut or replacement wood, no ground out chambers, chokes, forcing cones or steel from anywhere on the gun etc. I also buy some nice original guns at gun shows, such as the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show.
I do all my own work and can refinish or repair anything on a gun that is needed, but the canvas needs to be relatively clean when I start.
Guns are not and never have been an investment for me. The return is very minimal compared to other great investments.
Best,
Doug
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,710 Likes: 346
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,710 Likes: 346 |
We've all made them, and it's good to recognize and learn from mistakes, but none of us really need these things. Even if the head says turn and run, in the end it's not that big a deal to get stuck with a basket case if it appeals to the little want voice.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116 |
Posts about re-stocking cost and barrel sleeve cost make me reflect about purchases I have made and regretted. Perhaps others will learn from my mistakes or at least laugh that they are not the only ones who make them. No names, no accusations of being wronged or tricked into spending money. Just guns bought that should have been left not bought. No more project guns.
First, are all the guns with bad barrels I have bought are a mistake purchase. I know we all think we will find a second set of barrels for that ejector Smith, Fox, Remington, Lefever or whatever. The number of good barrels out there, to find and fit is about a tenth of one percent of the demand at best. Guns with bad barrels are just that, guns with bad barrels. I have got ten or more that I have been waiting to find orphan barrels to make good.
Second, is any project gun. I've got three plus safes full of them. Some are missing little things like fore-ends with metal. Some need repairs, some need restocking, some need to be redone. Fifty plus of them at last count. Might as well part them out. But I still hold out hope and since they are paid for I'll just wait a little longer. And not one of them could be donor guns for barrels. I looked at them and my luck does not run in that direction. How bad is it you ask to have that many project guns? Figure fifty guns at five hundred to a thousand each or more could buy half a dozen really, really nice guns not needing anything but to be used. Project guns tie up money that could be used to buy better guns in the long run.
Third, is any gun needing to be restocked should not be bought. Broken stocks, missing stock, stocks with so much drop they are best shot from the hip. Stocks butchered by others. Stocks worn into splinters just due to age. Oil soaked stocks that are just about to turn into mush. Hint if you have three dozen of them you will never get them done even if you buy your own stock duplicating machine. I know first hand because I have done it and some are still waiting to get done. Well to tell the truth the first dozen got done fairly fast but the second dozen have been a long process and I made the mistake of buying more.
Four, buying a bigger safe or multiple safes will just get filled up no matter how big they are. Worse build a gun room that holds several hundred is a major, major mistake. Do not ask me how I learned that lesson. My safes are full again with projects and guns for thieves to find instead of the good stuff and the gun room is full also. It does keep my wife from counting them at least.
Five, learning about a "new" make of double is not supposed to be motivation to buy one or more of them. If people just did not make them seem so great I would not be tempted to buy one for myself. I remember reading about the side opening SupperBritte O/U which were made back before I was born. They seemed like such a great novelty I just had to buy one for myself at major expense. Ten years later a whole pile of them were found and finished up by G&H for less than I paid for mine. With my gun I went from being a very good shooter to one of the worse shooters, in recorded memory, with it in my hands. If forced to commit suicide with that gun I would have been required to reload it twice. Sides of barns were completely safe from the inside and out side.
Six, never buy a "shooter" if you want a pristine gun. Shooting a gun is never enough if you get the "collecting" bug. If a C grade Fox is what you want having five Sterlingworths and several A grades will not fulfill that desire. And never buy a worn out gun thinking it will do until a better condition one comes along. You want, what you want and things will just not make you happy settling for less.
Seven, never be afraid to shoot a gun you have bought. If you can not shoot it for fear of decreasing it's value it might as well be in someones collection. If the gun is in shoot-able condition it can and should be shot. They are guns, not fragile works of art. Owning a gun and not being willing to fire it is like marring a beautiful woman and not sleeping with her to preserve her virginity.
Eight, there are no worse investments than guns for retirement. I have known some very smart financial advisers and not one of them have included guns in their portfolio. Guns are toys, not instruments of return, for your financial future.
Nine, no matter how much you know about a gun or a make of guns you can and will learn something new if you just keep your mouth shut and listen to others. Boards like this are great if you take everything with a grain of salt and consider what you know is not always fact. And worse some facts change over time.
Ten, if you have too many hobbies, no matter how much money or time you invest in them you will always be trying to add more to them. Doubles guns, rifles, Clay target shooting venues, live birds, hunting, dog training, gun repairs, stock work, checkering, woodworking, you name it.
In the end the best time I have spent is time spent with my kids shooting and getting them interested in shooting. To that end each of my kids are getting ten plus guns to share with their kinds in the future. A matched pair of .22's, a couple of doubles, a couple of rifles, several guns for clay targets. One each for son or daughter and child. If time permits and I last long enough, I will make sure each grandchild gets their own starter collection. Just no project guns or things of mine to finish. I laughed, I cried...
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1 |
Good sound advise from someone who has "Been there and done that". If I buy guns with these type of issues I readily sell them off as parts guns and let it go at that.
Life is too short to spend any time screwing around with guns with major issues.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 971 Likes: 41
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 971 Likes: 41 |
Gough Thomas had called indiscriminate collectors "inflation hedging barbarians", for him collecting was meaningful when sustained by taxonomic purpose. I will add access to genuine researchers, amateur or professional, otherwise it is hoarding, not collecting.
Adverts from the golden age of shotguns rarely if ever mention collecting as a motive for purchase.
Having useless stuff that needs care seems like a huge burden.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,135 Likes: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,135 Likes: 125 |
yeah, but...what about the joy and contribution of bringing back an old gun to shooting condition and perhaps enhancing it cosmetically enough so it looks decent...
just seems sad to abandon them to oblivion...
Last edited by ed good; 04/30/15 07:32 AM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
Sadly I learned that real old half-choked Ithaca 37 is just as good as much more expensive double barrel game gun. It makes me want to 
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
All in all I find myself in agreement with the following exceptions or observation.
Project guns can be a good thing if brought with a true vision of the cost and value when complete. When I had 38 long guns you are more right about it than I care to admit. However, when I am reduced down to four guns plus one or two projects are valid. (I cannot decide if one of my double rifles is a project or simply a gun sale not yet made)
My rules for project guns are simple.
1. Understand you will be upside down when complete. This is a 95% probability.
2. The gun has to fit an actual need other than desire. I.E. You need one heavy waterfowl/clays SxS in your battery and this will be the only one you will own.
3. You pay cash for all work, no debts for either purchase or restoration
4. I look upon all gun ownership as rental ownership. I have made actual profit money on a gun deal a few times out over 50. All profits, the few I made, were made on the purchase price, not the sales price. They did not go up in actual value.
5. Never have more than one project gun at a time
These rules stated, I admit I did not always live by them until the last few years. I own one completed project gun and recently purchased a new project (matching 20 SLE to a 12 & 16 on hand). My pleasure from six SxS guns is greater now than when I had 38.
Lastly in respect from your comments in having too many hobbies, I cannot more agree.
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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