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Where can I find the ruling or regulation that declares that an ANTIQUE FIREARM is not a FIREARM ??? In days gone by the rules use to declare that an antique firearm, a firearm built in 1898 or built before the year 1898, was NOT A FIREARM.

Does anyone else remember wording to this effect in the past ??

How about the rules that declare that the government cannot keep copies of the Form 4473 beyond a certain number of days. Does anyone know where the rules are that prohibit the government from creating a backdoor gun registration system by keeping copies of the form 4473 ???

Thank You for you help in my search.....Jent

Jent,
I believe it is contained in the "Firearms Act of 1968".
Bob Jurewicz

the 4473 forms stay with the FFL holder for 20 years. After that he can destroy them. If an FFL closes down then the 4473 forms must be sent to the ATF. During current inspections they use digital cameras to take copies of whatever they want to go over in the future, the bound book, 4473s etc. How legal that is I am not sure but I am not looking for a fight I can not afford with them so I do not inquire.

Here is a link to what I found in the 1968 Statute:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-82/pdf/STATUTE-82-Pg1213-2.pdf

I read it as having some ammunition requirements in addition to date, but general practice shows something more subtle.

From the ATF website:
https://www.atf.gov/content/what-qualifies-antique-firearm

An original Springfield Trapdoor is an antique, the Italian (Pedersoli?) copy of the same gun is considered modern

The ammunition requirements in the ATF publication match those listed in the 1968 statute (not surprisingly). I do see pre-1899 shotguns that are cartridge based listed as being shippable without an FFL. That may be the same as the original Trapdoor, but I'm not finding the language for either firearm in either publication.

We sometimes hear about law enforcement agencies tracing a crime scene gun back to the purchaser. We have also heard about ex-NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg's anti gun taskforce using firearms trace data to prove that guns which were sold in other states sometimes ended up in NYC.

How would either of the above circumstances even be possible if serial number data from form 4473's stayed with the FFL who sold the gun, unless that FFL has since went out of business and the records were returned to ATF?

As for the original question, the answer can be found here on one of the FAQ pages from the BATF website:

https://www.atf.gov/faq-page#t316n11076

I couldn't get a link directly to the answer. Go to the BATF webpage, and then click on Frequently Asked Questions in the lower left corner of the main page. Then, under "Firearms" click on the "General" tab and then click on the question, "Do antiques come within the purview of the GCA?

Somewhere within the FAQ section, there is also the definition of an Antique, and other guns such as black powder replicas, which do not require an FFL transfer.

As I understand the process: A weapon that was used in a crime comes into the possession of police. The police are able to go to the manufacturer and find out where the gun was shipped when it was new, say a wholesaler. They go to that wholesaler and get the name of the retailer that he shipped it to. They then go to that retailer and find out who he sold it to.

So I suppose Nanny Bloomberg could have those guns that were in NYC illegally traced back to the retailer.

It may be that state and city law enforcement officials have to through the feds to do a weapons trace. I don't know.

Used guns would be different. If LEOs were able to trace a used gun back to the retailer it would not be possible using the process I outlined.

I think the original question had a bit to do with backdoor registration. I think Steve's insight shows how grandpa's ole duck gun is being permanently de facto registered, regardless of whether the paperwork is twenty years old or if a gunsmith retires.

Thanks Mike, that explanation makes sense. As craig notes, we may already have a backdoor registration of sorts just from routine inspections where the books are photographed, and from the collection of records of retired FFL holders who may not have destroyed records after 20 years. Of course, if some law requiring confiscation or registration or licensing was ever passed, I'd imagine the manufacturers would be compelled to provide data showing where the banned or restricted guns they made were sold to dealers.

Another thread currently running here has a few of our British regulars recalling how the government knew exactly where to go when handguns and certain rifles were banned, because of the mandatory and long standing registration scheme. We have also seen how Quebec has refused to destroy the records from the now unlawful Canadian Long Gun Registry. Of course, they could eventually be forced by the courts to comply, but every gun and gun owner in that Registry could easily fit onto a $50 one terrabyte external hard drive, with room to spare. Anyone who believes that has not already been done is probably also dumb enough to believe that Hillary Clinton had nothing to hide when she erased her personal computers server.

So I guess it falls upon us to be smart enough to understand and realize which politicians and which Party have relentlessly worked to restrict the gun rights of law abiding citizens, and to make sure they don't get elected. Membership in the NRA is also the cheapest insurance we can buy to ensure that our kids and grandkids get to enjoy the same rights and freedoms that we did.