doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What Ever Happened to Gauge?

I have eschewed the .729 bore of late, and usually use the .615

Doug,

Well stated.

Pete

Sorry, guys, but I've had just about enough of this string. Talk about being pretentious! I think lectures about which are the "right" words for good Americans to use is silly, divisive, and chauvinistic. So I'm not patriotic enough, or genuine enough, or tough enough to suit you ... because I use the word "bore" instead of "gauge"? Because it's an English term, and somehow that's a bad thing? And which nation did the Manton brothers come from? And where was the game gun born? And speaking of those funny-talking Brits, who is it that still stands by us, and bleeds with us, in Iraq? Give me a break! New topic, please. TT

Jack, Pete and a few others-

Thanks, I think you may be among a minority who understand what I am trying to say. It is not about imposing what I consider correct on others or dividing what would otherwise be a unified community, but more an inquiry into why. No hatred here, no test of patriotism, or intent to start a fight. Although I can see why the suggestion that it may be an affectation (and I tend to agree in some cases that may be the reason) on the part of some could be taken as such...but only by those who are wearing the shoe. I think we would be the last to try to impose upon others, and Jack, while I mistook the SS reference, the meaning was not lost--- I don't think I have been, or anyone else here has been critical of the British, their culture or their firearms.

Merely for the sake of making the point and not to imply anything in the process, some have noticed how Hillary Clinton shifts from one regional accent to another depending on her audience. In making this observation, I don't think anyone is trying to say that a Southern accent is good or bad, or an Eastern accent is good or bad. In the same way, I don't think anyone has suggested that there is anything inferior in the British culture or language, again, quite the opposite. If someone who is not English, wants to act or speak as if they are English (or any other way for that matter), that is their business and it does not harm me or anyone else. While it is their business, it does not stop the natural human curiosity and propensity to ask, sincerely, why?

As to those who tire of forum discussions, I do understand, there are many I have followed to the point of frustration. However, when I reach that point, I tend to stop reading and move on to other more interesting discussions...sort of like a radio station. If I don't like the music, I change the station.

To those who are not enjoying the admittedly trivial discussion, I apologize to you for starting it, but not for anything I have said, and for all who have participated-no matter the views expressed, thanks-

Doug

A couple of quotes from Burrard;
Vol I page 17: Bore - that part of the inside of the barrel which is sealed completely by the shot sharge & wads as they travel along the barrel on discharge > The size, or Gauge, of a gun depends on the diameter of the bore, but this is not measured in decimals of an inch, but is denoted by the number of spherical balls of pure lead, each exactly fitting the bore, which go to the pound.
Now after this entirely correct description & terminology lets look at how he applies it;
Vol III, page 313: The Gauge division 12/1 includes any bore of diameter .750" to .740" inclusive; and the gauge division 12 any bore of diameter .729" to .739". If the diameter is .751" the gun is not a 12-bore but it's gauge size is 11, and the gun is proved as an 11-bore.

Check out the Ithaca catalog facsimiles in Snyder's Ithaca book. In one instance, bore and gauge are used interchangably in the ad copy. I'm not revealing which page; y'all got more than enuf energy to hunt it up.

jack

We will know we have truly arrived when we are able to discuss the diameter of the muzzle end of the barrels with one guy using the term gauge and the other using the term bore and no one even notices. It is truly a non-issue except for some who are living in the past and have some residual resentment for colonial times and other perceived British misdeeds or who have some distorted notion of the romanticism of 19th and early 20th century aristocratic English driven shoots. Let it go guys. I don't care....I'm clear on the meaning of both terms in shotgun discussions........EXACTLY the same thing. I'm taking my 12 bore and my 20 gauge to my next shoot.

I think Doug's question could be restated as, "why does someone who grew up using the term gauge - because that is by far the most widely understood term for shotgun size in his native land - decide to change over to the much less common term bore?"

I suggest that it's for the same reason adolescents affect code words to help distinguish 'us' from 'them,' 'cool' from 'uncool,' 'in' from 'out.' When you say "12 bore," you're signalling that you speak 'side-by-side.' It separates you from the hoi polloi, users of common semi-autos and pumps, and connects you with a more exclusive group.

Affecting foreign words is a way of convincing yourself (if not others) of your sophistication.

But Jack, that line of thinking is, in my view, exactly what you apparently don't want......separating yourself from (actually placing yourself above) some other perceived "hoi polloi". I think you'd agree that the term "bore" is pretty common around here and several other shotgun boards. So by those criteria, if you use "gauge" exclusively, you are implying that its more "in" and "cooler" to shoot a pump, or semi-auto......maybe makes you more "American" somehow. Looks suspicously like reverse snobbery. My perception only. The terms mean EXACTLY the same thing. Maybe I just don't get it.

Personally, I find these discussions a refreshing restbit from my usual routine.

I always find the views of other interesting, even when I do not agree.

Bore or guage, the sun will rise tomorrow, the seasons will follow and my dog will still like me.