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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 439 Likes: 41
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 439 Likes: 41 |
Trying to reduce wear and tear on older doubles with modern shells. Which is the more important consideration, lower FPS velocity or lighter lead payload? ie: 1 oz. versus 1 1/8oz. I use low chamber pressure loads,(RST)on pre WW1 guns. Any and all advice appreciated. Obviously, we are talking about guns in sound mechanical and barrel condition.
HWK
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Here's a good thread to start with: http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthrea...true#Post391857Start at the beginning of the thread. Regards Ken
Last edited by Ken61; 03/15/15 03:10 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
HWK, welcome to the board. You can't consider your question without considering pressure, velocity and payload. The metal parts respond to pressure. The wood parts and shooter respond to recoil. Recoil is determined by payload and velocity squared. Recoil reduction is 1:1 for weight and proportioned by velocity squared : velocity squared. For pressure, you really hjave to know the load.
DDA
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
Which is the more important consideration, lower FPS velocity or lighter lead payload? ie: 1 oz. versus 1 1/8oz.
Major recoil factors are velocity, payload and gun weight. Note there is no place to input pressure. Generally, if it's easy on my shoulder, it's easy on my gun. If it's beating the hell out oif me, it probably isn't doing my old gun any good, but then, I won't be shooting a lot of them either. Play around with this using 438 grains for 1 ounce of shot (7/8 x 438 would be 383 grains). Keep your gun weight constant and vary your payload & velocity to see how dissimilar loads compare for recoil. It helps if you already have some idea of your "comfort" level. For instance, I can tolerate 1 ounce @1250 in an 8.5-9 lb target gun for several hundred rounds/day... ~ 15 ft-lbs. I know that going to 1 & 1/8 ounce @1200, an increase of only 2 ft-lbs, limits me to only 100 rds without having it adversely affect my shooting. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,337 Likes: 341 |
Here's a load I think I'm going to try this year for hunting. Should be good in my vintage guns (including my 2 1/2" chambered guns):
2 3/4" Remington STS HUll
Windjammer Wad (will more than likely use the Downrange clone)
Rio G-600 Primer
23grs 800-X
1 1/8oz shot
7000psi
1200fps
Even given a 25% increase in pressure (8750psi) if used in short chambers, it falls within 8938psi for guns proofed at 3 tons psi
Any comments on this load?
Best,
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg
MSG, USA
Ret
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 452
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 452 |
About a standard clays competition SxS shell is B&Ps Competition One. 12 g 7/8 oz at 1160 FPS. Easy on the gun and shooter. My reloads duplicate it. You can get away with light shot loads in tight choked guns pattern density is fine. Recoil is more projectile weight than anything else. 20's I use 3/4 oz same velocity.
Hunting another thing fewer shots recoil less concern need more pellets for clean kills. Even so 1 oz at 1160 is a good hunting load with mild recoil.
Boats
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Suppose you need to cut recoil in half from a 1 oz load at 1250 fps. You can accomplish this with 1/2 oz at 1250 fps or 1 oz at 884 fps. Or, you could shoot 3/4 oz at 1020 fps.
DDA
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
It is noted that both recoil & pressure are factors to watch in loading for older guns. As Dave noted in his earlier post "The metal parts respond to pressure. The wood parts and shooter respond to recoil." While it is true that pressure is not in the formula for recoil it is equally true that one can find low recoil loads which have higher pressures than some heavy, high recoil loads. it would not be advisable to use either in a lightly constructed older gun having a minimum wall thickness over the chamber.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12 |
In 12ga I reload 3/4oz at 1200FPS - solves everything. A lot cheaper than buying them. Buy a used Mec 600 and get some Clay Busters CB-0175 wads - they include reloading data. Paul
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
A 50% reduction in the kinetic energy of the payload does not necessarily give a 50% reduction in the kinetic energy of the firearm, which is free recoil energy.
For instance, cutting the payload by half while keeping the velocity constant gives a 2/3 reduction in free recoil energy.
The longhand formulae are available in a SAAMI file and elsewhere, but I find a recoil calculator like the one I posted in the link is a lot handier.
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