doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charlin Serial Number Location

Looks like I might have hit an image limit... here are two more that seem important:

ADK,
This is a design of gun I have only seen pictures of. It IS a Charlin, but, it is built on a version of a Darne R model. The pictures I posted are what one typically will see, and the breech is not easily removable on that type of Charlin. Regis Darne's earlier patents went into the public domain early in the last century, and many makers offered a version of them for sale-I believe, from the numbers of unmarked sliding breech guns we see today, that this endeavor was assisted by the Darne factory.

There is no button to remove the barrels on your gun, like the more common design of Charlin. The spring, in the center of the rails, is pushed down at the front, and then the interference fit of barrels and receiver can be broken. Which, it would seem, you figured out.

The gun was most likely built post 1900, as it is proofed for powder T, a modern smokeless powder still in use. It was single proofed, a level that was higher than the rest of Europe, but, more expensive arms were usually double or triple proofed. It originally had short chambers, it may not at this point in time, and I wouldn't concern myself greatly about that. The gun will be more comfortable to shoot with light, 2 1/2" loads. Proof of firearms in France could be a study all by itself, and I am only an amatuer in level of knowledge of it.
The doggie head likely denotes a grade of some sort, I'll check my catalogs and see what I can find. Unfortunately, every time the company changed hands, it seems like the grading system changed also, and I don't have every Charlin catalog.
This gun, while unmistakably having R model Darne features, is very unique and beautifully styled. I've never seen this version in person, and I've been a student of the sliding breech gun for about 35 years.

It is a lovely gun, and I hope your friend enjoys it.


Best,
Ted

Ted,

I greatly appreciate the information. These are fascinating guns - light, smooth, well designed. I enjoy a few different facets of history, but this is something that I have never come into. My knowledge of old firearms goes back to along the lines of early US single action revolvers and such. I enjoy how pieces like this HAVE a history that many guns do not.

Knowing that that dog head may denote a grade, I'll look around also. If you find anything else, please let me know if you would.

As I said, I greatly appreciate the help.

Best regards,

ADK

Ted, are most of the Charlins you've seen standard (single) St. Etienne proof? I know a lot of Darnes have the double (or even triple) proof.

Larry,
Seems to depend on the grade. Lots, but, not all, plain versions are single proof. Customers could specify what they wanted on a gun order, but, I'd bet few ever did.
French single proof is nothing to sneer at.
After the war, everything Darne built was triple proofed. Prior to the 1923 change, when triple proof had the four crossed palms, and was a stout level of proof indeed, most of the guns that were submitted to the proof house for that level of proof were Darnes. There is an advertisement out there that states something like 26 barrels were submitted for triple proof that year, before the change and 24 of them were Darnes.
I've seen some Ideals with the four crossed palms, as well. I wonder how many barrels didn't pass proof at that level?

Best,
Ted

Looks, ADK, as if the left barrel is full choke (P. Choke is French for Plein (Full) Choke. Can't see the right barrel. Ted's suggestion to shoot 2-1/2" shells is based in the 65 on the barrel flats which is 65mm or 2-1/2 inches.

Of concern is that, in removing the sliding breech, did you find two ball bearings along which the breech traveled and did you keep them? I understand they are often lost by those who don't know they are there. (Darne guns do not have the ball bearings).

Finally, below is a Charlin 1930s explanation of grades. As you see, the one critter (a rabbit) is the basic gun that includes an interceptor for safety etc., etc. You have a Charlin Model A 12 gauge. Not sure of the date, but as Ted notes, likely very early after Charlin started in 1904 with the LC1 (LC doubtless Louis Charlin 1).

Regards, Tim

Tim,
This is a Charlin that has a user removable breech. It is removed in the same manor as an R model Darne.
The Charlin that has the breech that is NOT easily removed, is the one with the two little bearings and springs.
Both the barrels and the breech on this gun take down exactly like an R model Darne. For years I heard rumors of this design, finally saw pictures of an example in France, and now, this one.

Best,
Ted

Note that 65mm = 2.559" or more like 2 9/16" (2.5625") than 2�".
Either way they're still shorter than 2 3/4".

Tim,
I am going to speculate that ADK's gun is not the grade you believe it to be, and, in fact, does not appear to be in the catalog you posted the image from.
Note this image from the barrel flats of a gun that obviously is in your catalog, a typical L.C.1 in 12 gauge:



The grade of the gun appears along with the words "Charlin Automatique". Those same two words appear in the description of every gun in your catalog. Every Charlin I've ever seen, until now, had those two words dutifully stamped into the barrel flats and the watertable area.


View of the watertable area, on the same L.C.1:

ADK's gun is something different. My opinion, based on what I've seen, is his gun pre dates the familiar Charlin design that we are used to seeing.

Best,
Ted

Ted, agree with you on single French proof. In those pre-CIP days, it was stouter than a lot of other standard European proofs.