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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885 Likes: 5 |
Bought a gun unknown to me at a gunshow today. It is a 12 GA hammergun marked "SAXTON". Barrels and receiver are stamped "ENGLAND" and it has Birmingham 1868-1925 definitive black powder proof marks. WHAT DO I HAVE??? Thank you!!! Bob Jurewicz      
Last edited by Bob Jurewicz; 03/14/15 05:21 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
A tough one. I've researched the name as well. "Saxton" appears to be a "Trade Name", used by an importer. I haven't been able to determine which one. The name is found on both Birmingham and Belgian guns. It's similar to other trade names like 'F A Loomis", etc, which were mid grade pre-1890 hammerguns made by someone in Birmingham. I can't remember right off the year guns were required to have country of origin stamped on'em, yours was obviously made after that date. If it was (probably) made "in the trade" you wouldn't necessarily know who made the gun even if it had a recognizable name on it, as that firm may have simply sourced it from "the trade". Nice thing is that the standards were fairly comparable for equivalent grade guns. What are the barrels, fluid steel or pattern-welded? They don't look right, possibly severely buffed or sanded?
Last edited by Ken61; 03/15/15 08:15 AM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Dug this up..It's a DocDrew quote.
English Saxton shotguns have been described with a W. Bentley Pat. and Birmingham proofs.
Walter Bentley was in the trade at Price Street, Birmingham 1884/85.
Most however are Belgian by Ferdinand Drissen or Neumann Freres and the barrels are marked "London Fine Twist" or "Belgium Laminated Steel."
Last edited by Ken61; 03/14/15 06:50 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,724 Likes: 126
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,724 Likes: 126 |
Are you sure it is not American; it seems to have a flying turnip engraved on the lock plate. Just kidding, nice looking gun...Geo
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Either that or "Hermes' Helmet".  I'm betting those barrels are Damascus.
Last edited by Ken61; 03/14/15 11:05 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 885 Likes: 5 |
Thank you all for the replies.
The barrels are Damascus and marked "FINE DAMASCUS STEEL".
They have been polish and are now silver.
Bob Jurewicz
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Operating from memory here, but if I recall correctly the fact it has the 12/C chamber marking makes it a post 1887 date. Interesting it has 12ga chambers but only 14 bores. The intermediate bore markings began the same time as the chamber mark so these bores would have been no larger than a 14/1. 14ga = .693" with 14/1 @ .702". 12ga = .729". I have an old Birmingham proofed W Richards which also has 14 bores with a 12ga chamber, but it predates 1887 ( no chamber mark on it) . This gun could conceivably have had bores very near to 13ga (.710") when new. They measure very near that now but are badly pitted so cannot say how close they are to original.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,545 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,545 Likes: 106 |
Two comments ,
1 The engraver had possibly never seen a "pheasant" in the wild only drawings and those hanging up it the butchers .
2 These guns almost certainly made for export , as this is a typical example ,were made in the days of reloading so if you used heavy brass cases the difference in chamber and bore size might not be so great.
The tubes were probably imported and boring cost money so leave them heavy .
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