doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Horns of a Dilemma***Model 21 Vent Rib Trap

I'm a Skeet Shooter.
I want to shoot Continental Trap with a Vent Rib Model 21.
I found 2 original guns, both will letter.
Help a brother out!

#1
For: R.B. Fitch c/o Martin - Morris Sporting Department of Clinton, Iowa
Ordered as:
Standard Trap Grade
Symbol: G2100B
12 gauge
Barrel Length: 30 inches
Right Barrel: Full, Left Barrel: Modified
Vent Rib
Sights: Bradley red bead front sight 5/32", Win. white metal middle sight
Non-Automatic safety
Single trigger
Selective ejector
Straight Grip stock
Winchester recoil pad
Beavertail forend
Pull: 14-3/8 in., Drop at heel: 1-7/8 in., Drop at comb: 1-3/8 in.
H. Orre - Use gun 12999 herewith and make over as above
Stamp "Trap" on trigger plate
For the account of Harper & McIntire Co., Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Work started: May 14, 1941

#2
Trap Grade
Symbol: G21B
12 gauge
Barrel Length: 32 inches
Right Barrel: Full, Left Barrel: Full
Vent Rib
Sights: Bradley Ivory large bead front and Winchester white metal middle#94B
Non-Automatic safety
Single trigger
Selective ejector
Pistol Grip stock
Hawkins recoil pad
Beavertail forend
Pull: 14-1/2 in., Drop at heel: 2-1/8 in., Drop at comb: 1-5/8 in.
Weight: 8lb. 5oz.
Trap finish
Grade of Wood: Trap
Weight 8lb. 3oz. to 8lb. 5oz.
Right chamber large
Made for: Dunham - Fulton Gun Co.
Order number: 1404-33
Inspection started: September 14, 1931

OK, buy them both, use them for one year, sell the one you like the least.

All it will cost you after a year and a successful sale is the interest paid on the money to purchase one gun.

Problem solved

Herb Orre was a famous Ohio Trap shooter, and specialized in choke work on Trap guns- wonder why the right barrel is Full, and the left barrel is Mod- when with the famous Winchester M21 single selective trigger, you can choose at will- Unless he (Herb) was like John Olin, and always fired the left barrel first on all his M21 doubleguns, to avoid "torgue" so I have read. Buy them both if you can afford to do so now.

I am almost 'there" on a 12 M21- a shooting pal from our hunting club has two for sale privately- (he does NOT have an e-mail address) a 1939 Skeet 12 with 28" barrels, SST, EJ, PG, original pad, smaller field style Beavertail- and a 1951 mfg. almost identical gun, except it is in the "bastard gauge- that being 16 of course, and I believe it has 26" barrels- Wish I could afford to buy them both, keeping the 12 of course, and possibly selling the 16- we shall see. The older quality ones made before 1960 always seem to appreciate on the market, and the M21 is the only American made doublegun with a SST that is almost foolproof-

Hello Bob..I guess it would depend on which best fits your stock dimensions, your grip preference, & other details..what the condition of each is , & a good weight for you.
You dont mention price..but I wouldn't pay more for a Gun owned by a famous shot..he might have shot a zillion rounds through it,lol.
SAme with any two guns, pretty hard to do with just the lyrics.
Hope you get the good one..
Franc

Herb Orre worked for Winchester in the 1930's and is credited with putting the first 21 together. He did not design it as some will have you believe. Many trap and pidgeon shooters had their guns set up to shoot the left barrel first claiming they could stay in the gun better. If you are going to shoot trap with it by all means get the one with the higher stock. I got my first yard in trap shooting with a 30" Model 21. You can do no better.

AWC

Nice dilemma to have, Bob. Hope you get the right one.

If you don't buy the 32" one, how about a heads up on where it is located? A p.m. would be fine.

SRH

For continental trap I would take the 32" gun. Buy both; the one you don't want can easily go to a 21 collector friend of mine.

"last time I saw a chance like you, I shot about there...."

Both are really nice. Herb Orre was a master barrel man. Definately knew how to choke a shotgun. Hard to turn down a 32". Vent ribs made the guns heavier than matted, at least the few I've compared. Saying that, I really like a 21 vent rib too. Super nice. A tough decision between the 2 guns.

I guess I really don't understand the question. Two 21's with different stock dimensions & you want to shoot International Trap?

Simple, assuming you are going to keep the guns original, buy the one that comes closest to fitting you or better yet buy a non original vent rib 30" Or 32" gun & alter it as needed. Nothing like shooting a gun that fits, nothing worse than trying to shoot with one that doesn't. The bbl length is going to be a matter of personal preference.

It's #2 for me.
Stock dimensions will suit me better, I prefer a slightly flatter shooting gun. Still at 2 1/8" DAH I'll see plenty of rib.
More barrels, more choke, more LOP, more DAH, more condition, and it's a very early gun. Did I mention it has 32" barrels?
At 8lbs 5 oz this will be the heaviest 21 in my cabinet. Once in motion I imagine it'll just keep on swinging.
Long barrels and beautiful wood, someone once told me those are two of the attributes of a Trap gun.


Gun #1 was never owned by Herb.
Broken Extracror shaft leads me to believe it has been shot a Gozillion times.
I like the slightly lighter weight (7oz) and I do like the English stock.

#1


#2

Huum- I know my favorite actor of the era of these M21's , Humphrey Bogart- shot skeet with a Grade 1 LC Smith 20 gauge- never knew Walter Pidgeon was into the shooting sports (pidgeon shooters- aka- "Team Walter" I should guess. Saw a field grade M12 once years ago at a local gun show- restock with an Anton stock, Simmons rib added- and someone had tried to engrave both the bird and the wording- to pass it off as a Pigeon Grade- and they made the same error you did- they actually spelled it with the added "d"-- comical. I have a true M12 Pigeon grade trap gun, made in 1948- the older rib that was first offered about 1919- 30" barrel- it has had well over 350,000 shells through it- never a broken part-A testimony to how durable a M12 is!!

That 32 incher is a beauty.

Will the rib loosen from shooting the same bbl as in 16 yard singles?
danc

Continental Trap is a game where a second shot is permissible when the first shot is lost.
Oft times follow-up shots are out to 70 yards. Higher, wider and faster targets than traditional trap.
As I said, I'm a Skeet shooter. If you've ever seen me shoot Continental,
I'll be exercising the left barrel frequently

Thanks Buzz.
Thanks to all.

Odd that you say that. About 20 yrs ago I was shooting trap doubles with a vent rib 21 and the rib just flew off on the ground. Easy fix though, but surprised me. RE vent rib on a 21, I think it's the only SxS I have ever seen where a vent rib looks good.

Both are beautiful guns, thanks for the posting-- Agree that the '21 vent rib gun has an elegant look to it. IMO the kidney-style forearm checkering pattern from the pre-1950 guns, along with the blued trigger with gold plated barrel selecter are more attractive than the later - and current production guns.
Perly88

That straight grip 21 is certainly a lovely gun....
I shoot a little ATA trap with a vent rib 21 and enjoy the quizzical looks from the younger shooters. Best of luck with the continental trap; it's a hoot to shoot, almost as enjoyable as helice.