doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com An advantage to being a Democrat?

No question there are democrats, both citizens and elected officials, who support RKBA.

No one would disagree that stopping mentally ill people and/or criminals from getting guns would be a good thing. However, the problem is how to do it without trampling and disrespecting the rights, privacy, and freedoms of others. These "good intentions" and being "reasonable" are the catch-words of gun control, but the laws have not worked anywhere they have been tried no matter how restrictive or comprehensive the laws have been. This is why gun control will eventually lead to confiscation if followed to its utlimate conclusion. Because it does not work and they keep calling for more and more until there is nothing left. This is not being paranoid, it is simply being realistic.

Also, we are a Constitutional Republic.

"... but you really have to have drunk the kool-aid to believe that the dems care one iota more." There are plenty of Demos that are just numb enough between the ears that I believe they've already had their serving.

On the "mentally ill". Remember, some people just have bouts of depression. I have a dear friend of many years that has dealt with depression over the years. You may recall some of our members having difficulties with depression. I never considered them a threat with their guns to others or themselves. That's the tough part, where to draw the line of those dealing with mental issues that are benign in terms of safety to the public, family, friends and themselves. We probably have a psycologist or psychiatrist or two here that can better verbalize this.

If we don't stay vigilant, we just may end up with a law that takes away the rights of a person for just going to the doctor for feeling mentally down.

That's no joke, Chuck. Just report on your airman medical certificate application that you've sought treatment for ANY mental condition, including depression (mild or not), and see what happens. It will be a long time before you fly again, if EVER.

Result: Pilots suffering from depression or many other medical conditions do not seek treatment. The system is self defeating. Instead of promoting maintenance of health, it does exactly the opposite.

The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America does not give anyone anything. The Second Amendment affirms and acknowledges that we Americans are born with this right (God given, should you want to go down that road) and that the government of the United States of America shall not infringe upon that right. The men who wrote these words knew better than to trust the people the rest of us would elected to represent all Americans. They put their best effort into insuring that we could forever defend ourselves from those we elect to govern us.

Some smart, for a bunch of guys who wore wigs.

M Dow got it exactly right. It is also interesting to note that James Madison, first signer of the constitution strongly opposed the Bill of Rights. This was not that he didn't believe in these rights, but felt the constitution was written in such a way the "Government" could make laws "Only" as specifically spelled out. The ability to infringe upon any of these rights covered under the B-Of-R was not spelled out. He felt that to list certain ones would leave the impression that those not so listed could be "Infringed". Guess he knew whereof he spoke huh. He capitulated & signed as he concluded this to be the only way the constitution would be ratified.

Chuck, men can have differing opinions without having to have drunk "the kool-aid." That's a very simplistic world view I'm surprised to see you espouse. I could very, very easily make the same claim from my vantage point, but I choose not to.

For the sake of discussion, let me posit this: As an ex-Republican Democrat (maybe I'm a Democratican), I believe in the strongest possible way that we shouldn't give up ANY of our civil liberties in fighting terrorism. I'm willing to live with any supposed risks to maintain a free society, because I feel we've lost if we give in to erosion of our Constitutionally-granted civil liberties, which has already been happening to my great chagrin. If the same analogy can be drawn to gun control, that we must not have ANY infringement of our rights under any circumstances (a view many here seem to espouse), I would have more respect for the principles of that view IF, and I stress IF, Republicans would take the same stand with regards to our civil liberties, which unfortunately they have not. In fact, they have been more than willing to discard them (habeus corpus, 4th Amendment rights, etc.). Could someone explain to me why 2nd Amendment rights are the only ones Republicans seem to be concerned about?

It is no longer Democrat. You have a choice between Dimocrap or socialist.

I am quite a fan of reading quotes and articles from our Founding Fathers' own quills and mouths. When reading these, I get the very strong impression that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was indeed to give the "The People" the right to keep arms. One of Jefferson's quotes was related directly to the use of arms to hunt and provision the people as well as to use for defense individuals as well as the country. Jefferson was not alone in that opinion as many others of that period espoused similar opinions. I wish I could find it and if I do, I will paste it here.

Here are some others:

“Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self-defense.” - John Adams

“The said Constitution be never construed …to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” - Samuel Adams

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” - Richard Henry Lee, Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican

“There are three reasons to own a gun. To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face.” - Krusty the Clown

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” - Thomas Jefferson

“The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.” - George Washington

"And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burdens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our National Bill of Rights." Joseph Story 1783–1858

A life of activism taught me one thing: all the great words mean naught as times change. What was gospel, accepted wisdom in the 50s became anathema within two decades. The current US upheaval is unprecedented within memory. Quoting from the Bible, the Bill and Charter hits entirely different chords with constituencies that hitherto never existed, for better or worse. Anyone doing anything anywhere must be where people are, not where they were 200 years ago.