I only shoot 2-1/2" .410 loads on doves (when I'm shooting a .410), but last season I fired a 1/2oz load of 8's at a dove flying straight away at about 35 yards (paced off in sand dunes), and the bird was destroyed. The body was completely gone and all that I could find to pick up was the head and the crop. I was on top of a dune and the dove was flying at about the same height I was, so the whole shot string apparently went right up his backside. Shell was either a Win AA or an Estate Target. I was surprised that the 1/2oz payload was that tight at that distance, even with a full choke (Browning Invector). Shot the same gun and shells on the opener this year and one of the guys remarked about how "that .410" was hammering Euros at 40 yards. I have not patterned it because it generally works so well, but now maybe I will.