doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Freak event on a dove field

Here is your answer - but you won't like it, as it calls into question the ballistic capabilities of the .410 ("ballistic abortion" is the technical term):

.410 3" Shells

That is a good read, Doverham. It does explain what evidently happened. It, however, does nothing to dissuade me from using the .410 on doves and quail. I have begun to use some 1/2 oz. loads in 2 1/2" shells on doves, and have been able to tell no difference in killing ability and range. This being with full chokes, mind you.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. BTW, I do not believe a .410 wad in itself has the energy to decapitate a dove at 23 yards. It had to be some anomaly with the shot.

SRH

Stan,

I think everyone is looking in the wrong place. I think the shot cup was somehow held closed in place for the 23 yards, or close to it. Most likely by the shot cup petals being welded closed holding the load in place for most of the flight......i.e. manufacturing flaw of the shot cup.....

This could be a flaw in the shot cup as originally machine loaded by Remington.....unlikely that this happened after firing.....I've seen various brands of shot cups travel quite a distance without opening....freak, but it happens......


Best,

I think if the dove was okay before the shot, then later the head and body weren't all shot up, it could have been a single distorted 7 1/2 shot or a couple. Whatever hit,it most likely had to be small, and dove heads can pull off pretty easy even if they are not shot. Sounds pretty clean, can you remember if a big chunk was missing.

Stan, 23 yards isn't but 6 feet farther than the crossing point on a skeet field. There is also the possibility that the bird was closer than 23 yards when impacted, birds often falling a bit farther out than when hit. I'd think the wad as suggested by others would have adequate energy to separate the bird's head. Your comment that neither seemed particularly torn up would seem to validate that conclusion.

best, tw

What about the empty hull fronm the shot? Do you have the hull? Over several decades of skeet shooting I've seen quite a few .410-bore "zingers" where all that ejects from the gun is the brass head of the shell, while everything else goes out the barrel. Could it be you decapitated the bird with a "zinger"?

I once shot the head off a quail that was going over the top of me like high house 8. It was the wad that got him, meaning I was too far in front with my shot.....I guess.

Doug may be indeed correct, and I mentioned the possibility of something like that in my original post. The severed area absolutely did not look like a single pellet did it. Too much damage to the area that was impacted. I did not see the shot cup leaving the load in the air, as I often do with a 12 or 20 gauge, but then I never do see it when shooting a .410.

Dave, I mentioned earlier that the hull itself looked exactly like the rest of them. Nothing notable about the crimp area at all, perfectly normal.

I flatly do not believe the wad could have decapitated that dove by itself. They shed their energy extremely fast, and this bird was every bit of the 23 yards from me when the shot hit it. I accounted for all the variables that could have put the bird closer at firing, but it just did not happen like that. I am convinced that he whole load, or a major portion of it fused together, hit the bird. Not just a wad.

SRH

When I was 11 years old and hunting with a Stevens Single Shot .410, using 3" Peters 7 1/2 shells I had the same thing happen.

I only shoot 2-1/2" .410 loads on doves (when I'm shooting a .410), but last season I fired a 1/2oz load of 8's at a dove flying straight away at about 35 yards (paced off in sand dunes), and the bird was destroyed. The body was completely gone and all that I could find to pick up was the head and the crop. I was on top of a dune and the dove was flying at about the same height I was, so the whole shot string apparently went right up his backside. Shell was either a Win AA or an Estate Target. I was surprised that the 1/2oz payload was that tight at that distance, even with a full choke (Browning Invector). Shot the same gun and shells on the opener this year and one of the guys remarked about how "that .410" was hammering Euros at 40 yards. I have not patterned it because it generally works so well, but now maybe I will.