Originally Posted By: L. Brown
The point, Kyrie, is that if you query a broad enough audience, you're more likely to come up with more negative anecdotes. Would you care to wager about whether Zabala Hermanos or V. Sarasqueta would be more likely to have more negative anecdotes (to be fair, by %--since far more people have owned ZH guns than VS guns)?

And there is one of the many problems with anecdotal data; do we hear more about problems with A than Z because there are more there are more A guns in absolute numbers, or because people don’t report problem Z guns, or because problem Z guns were all fixed decades ago, or for some other reason? The anecdotal data doesn’t – and cannot – tell us.

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
To me, that difference is what makes one name on a gun worth more than another. "Buy the gun, not the name" sounds good--until you shoot the gun for a period of time and either encounter, or do not encounter, various problems. I'll pay more for a gun, assuming similar grade and condition, if it's from the maker with a better reputation for quality control.

A lot of people feel the same way, and I say “more power to them.” It’s their money. But here’s the rub. That ZH two barrel set is easily the equal of an AyA No.2 in quality (and I’m using the word “quality” to describe the number of hours of skilled hand labor that goes into making a gun), and the ZH was had for less than a third what a used, 20 gauge, AyA No.2 would cost (with only one barrel!). I suspect I just upset a number of people, but this discussion is fundamentally about value (how much gun for how much money). It's all too easy to spend money just for a name.

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
You get into a discussion about Zabala Hermanos and it quickly becomes evident that their quality control is inconsistent.

Which makes them unusual in no way. Have you looked at any number of the AyA No. 2 guns made recently? There are lots of examples of poor metal to wood fit around the locks and the frame by the trigger guard. And the “engraving” stamped into the right lock is off center more often than not. The “engraving” on that ZH side lock is also stamped, but at least it stamped well centered.

The bottom line to all this is people tend to choose guns made by names they recognize. Nothing wrong with that. It’s even good for me, as it means I have less competition for the really nice guns made by people with names most folks don’t know, like this Martin Ugarteburu SLE assisted-opener: