doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Chamber cast mystery Urbas Ferlach Drilling.

I had a chamber cast done of a Vinzenz Urbas, (Ferlach), Drilling made 1927 according to proof marks.

I don't think there is a rifle calibre stamped anywhere.

The chamber best matches a straight-taper 8x58R Sauer case, but it has a very distinct shoulder, (the Sauer round does not). It does not seem to exactly match anything, for instance, any of the "mit Rand" cases listed in the RWS publication Wiederladen (1. Auflage).

It's too big to be an 8x57R350 and not big enough to be a 8x57JR. The rim diameter and base diameter match closely an 8x58R Sauer. But it's not a .303 British, or Savage or anything of that vintage that I can identify, thought it looks like the British round. The gun came from Switzerland, (might be a clue!).

R1 (rim diameter), .504" / 12.802mm
P1 (base diameter), .438" / 11.1252mm
P2 (shoulder diameter), .386" / 9.804mm
H2 (neck diameter at mouth), .343" / 8.712mm
L3 (overall case length), could be either:
2.186" / 55.5mm
or 2.360" / 60.0mm, (there are 2 similar marks on the casting)

The neck is either .270" / 6.858mm or .435" / 11.049mm long.

The bore is .317" according to my gunsmith. The cast measures .318" now. (4 groove).

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Thinking about this now for 2 days, it occurs to me that a chamber cast is going to be larger than the cartridge for obvious reasons. So the case dimensions in Cartridges of the World is not really the way to asses a chamber cast.

Looking at the 8x57R/360 CHAMBER dimensions, (in the RWS reloading reference Wiederladen), it's starting to look like a closer match. What do you guys, who perhaps do this more often than me, think?

Chamber dimensions from reference:
R1. 12,45mm
P1. 11,03mm
P2. 9,73mm
H2. 8,80mm
L3. 57,30 (If my cast is 60mm, perhaps it's because chambers must allow for over-length cases?)

8x57R/360 Lauf = 8.07mm /.318" Interestingly this rifle barrel is stamped 8,2 and then what looks like "mm". In other words, .323", but the chamber cast does not agree.

Another dimension is L1 47,24mm on my cast which is the base to the top of the shoulder. It's only supposed to be 46,00mm. I guess cases are going to stretch a bit.

So, do we have a 8x57R/360? Stransky says, "A large number of shootable rifles chambered for the round still exist". Is this one of them?

I am willing to bet the cartridge in question is 8x57R/360.I picked up a drilling in this caliber shortly before my back operation, which interfered with working up loads for it.From what I could see, before delaying the work, this cartridge is worthy of more respect than it usually gets.It seems to have been loaded "down" post war out of concern for how a lot of guns were affected in storage while being hidden from the allies.Based on some guns I've seen, the concern was valid.If a gun is checked out and is solid, there is no reason handloading can't be very productive.Many of these guns were made with barrels with groove diameter over .318, which was the bullet dia. of factory ammo.If the barrel is "slugged, it could very well be .321 or even larger. Mine is the larger diameter, so instead of .318 bullets, I can use 32Win.Spec.(.321)bullets.If a bullet will easily enter a fired/unsized case, it can be used.If .318 is really required, they can be easily made from the 32 bullets,and they were made for velocities similar to those that can be achieved with the 8x57R/360.Cases can be pretty easy also, although I don't reccomend using cut off 9.3x72R, not because they are not good, but because I wouldn't want to lose the 72mm case length.
Mike

I have a Austrian Cape Gun that is 8X57/R 360 (x 16 ga) as well.I had Safari Arms LTD make up some rounds for it with 200 gr Woodleigh's.
I can see if I can find the info from the chamber cast if that helps.

That could be very helpful. Thanks. I'll have a look at that online petition too!

I looked Kiwi and can't seem to find them,sorry.I will keep looking thou.

Kiwi,
RWS 8x57R360 as measured with Brown & Sharp calipers
R1 .483
P1 .426
P2 .380
H2 .337
L3 2.235
B1 .317 (bullet dia.

KIWI,
If you just won't load them yourself, you might give Buffalo Arms a try. If they don't have 8x57R/360 on their list, give them a call, they are pretty helpful.Be prepared to pay for it though.
Mike

This guy loaded them for me-bit sure if he can ship overseas but you could email to see:

http://safariarms.com/