doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com patterns and chokes for grouse?

I now have 1 box samples for 6 different low pressure loads to shoot in a couple of old Belgian guild doubles. I did a little patterning at 20 yards yesterday just to see how they looked. When looking at all of the little holes in the paper, it occurred to me that I really had no idea what pattern would be best for grouse hunting in the North Woods with and without dogs.

Last night I had a brain storm. I can shoot my Browning 325 with the chokes and loads I like and then have an idea of the known performance and patterns they produce. I can then shoot the low pressure loads in the 325 and compare that to the SxS's. Make sense, or is it crazy?

So what do you do when patterning for grouse? At what range do you pettern test, and what percentages are you looking for? Last night I read the patterning info in O'Connor's "The Shotgun Book," and did several searches on this site to see what had been written in the past. Any info or experiences would be appreciated. THe only patterning I have doen in th epast was for turkey guns, and that is just looking for dense, even patterns at 40-50 yards. At least these loads do not recoil like 2oz loads in a 3" magnum.

Just make sure that at ten yards, the pattern from your first barrel is between 15" and 21" in diameter and take it hunting.

I would look for open, even patterns at 20-25 yards. Long shots at grouse are not the norm where we hunt. Often it is one quick shot at a fleeting target that may or may not even give you a decent shot. More than one tree has died to save a grouse. IC and very light Mod. chokes are very nice for your bird of choice. Full and full will not help you much.

I usually pattern the right barrel at about 16-17 yards, the left at about 25. No use looking for percentage. Look for effective pattern spread. Alder's got a pretty good idea. IMO, you don't want much choke at all in the first barrel of a grouse gun, and not a whole lot more in the 2nd. Especially true if you're also shooting woodcock.

thanks for the input guys.

KYJ and LB-

when you mention pattern spread, what size would you consider ideal? Would it be the 15-21" described by AA?

Thanks!

BTW-I only patterned 3 loads yesterday- Ely Grand Prix 30g, B&P F2 Sub Sound 28g, and the Federal "Any Gun." The B&P recoiled noticeably less and patterned the tightest in both guns. Ely was th ehardest recoiling and the fiber was produced more open patterns

Marc, After 37 years chasing ruffs in PA,WV, NH, and NY, my ideal pattern would be about 48- 60 inches at 15 yards.(Ha Ha) I have never achieved that. I have a couple 25" barreled Sarasquettas from the 50's that will throw about 22-25" patterns at 17 yards with Polywad spreaders, but the recoil is severe. I have never tried the double wide vintager loads, as I have several boxes of the regular spreader loads left. In New Hampshire, I've had my longest shot opportunities and the spreader loads knocked birds down at 30-35 yards. However these birds were flying straight away down the edges of the logging roads, and I knew my dogs would find them. There are very few pellets in a grouse taken beyond 30 yards with spreader loads.

Bill

I've never achieved it either. 15 yards is five healthy paces, and I can say any grouse or bird I ever shot that close, I shouldn't have.
Hunting grouse early in the season can be an excercise in frustration, hearing birds, but never getting a shot off. I usually wait until later in the year, as the birds begin to get wiser, presenting better opportunities for the dog an I. I once watched an early season grouse walk under my Gordon while he pointed another-few dogs can handle that type of situation. It also doesn't seem to happen after grouse have been shot at a few times.
I think you are on the right track with the patterning work. Keep it up, and become familiar with how your gun works at various ranges with the loads you hunt with. If a grouse doesn't give you an opportunity for a shot at the first flush, you can usually get him up again. I like to only shoot the birds the dog handles really well, as you get a better idea of what is going to happen at the flush, and how you will handle the shot. Shooting too soon is a frequent mistake, and usually results in a miss, or birdburger. I remind myself "you have time" and have knocked grouse down through heavy cover enough to know that it is true, but, it's sometimes hard to remember at the flush!
My 12 Darne is choked loose IC and loose MOD, my 16 Tobin almost the same. When, and if, you get into some snowshoe grouse hunting, you will find occasion to use a full choke gun. There are no leaves on the trees, and moving a grouse from a snow burrow, while on snowshoes, will give you lots of time for a long shot. It is incredible hunting, most rewarding, solitary, difficult, and beautiful. My snowshoe hunting gun is a long, Italian underlever hammerless single shot full choked 12, useful as a balance beam in addition to shooting iron. I haven't ever needed more then one shot at this time of year, in these conditions.
Good luck, and enjoy.
Best,
Ted

I fell I must come clean here, so please don't gang up on me and call me a Barbarian or Neanderthal. When I lived in Northeast MN the first time, I shot grouse on snow shoes. The only thing is...it would be when I was checking traps and would shoot them with a .22 revolver.

I won't "limb 'em" when hunting with a shotgun, but during trapping season I figure any of them are fair game!

Too easy. You need a bigger lead with grouse on skis.

20" at 17 yards or so is a pretty good pattern.