doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Can anyone offer a brief tutorial on Spanish guns?

I realize I may be asking something for which there may be no simple answer.

From what I gather, there were some dark days in Spanish gun-making. What periods/manufacturers is it advisable to avoid? What are the best values in Spanish field grade and mid-grade guns?

Kyrie should be able to help. I've only owned one, an early 70s Uggy Falcon with 3" chambers, disc set strikers, hidden third fastener, and 28" barrels. I bought it to have an all purpose "beater" that would handle whatever moldy 2 3/4" or 3" ammunition I fed it, including steel, by virtue of me not caring what steel did to the barrels (it was a $400 gun).
I opened the chokes from full and full to cyl and mod, and, having used the thing for various clay games and a bit of hunting, have discovered it was a lot more than a $400 gun.
The same model is available today as the model 30, sans engraving, 3" chambers, and the hidden third fastener, but, still seems like a great buy.
Not sure I would be interested in the same gun with ejectors or a single trigger, as I've witnessed trouble on Spanish guns so equipped, but, the dirty little secret is I've witnessed the same trouble on really expensive English guns so equipped.
I like mine. I'd buy another.

Best,
Ted

When were the DIARM years? Early 70s?

Spanish Best
Terry Wieland
Countrysport Press
Camden, ME
2001 (Second Edition)
ISBN 0-89272-546-x

A History of Spanish Firearms
James D. Lavin, Ph.D.
Herbert Jenkins, London
1965

A bit later, IIRC, Lloyd. They didn't last long.

Best,
Ted

Spanish Best is absolutely worth the money, even at current inflated prices. It's a gun book that is worth reading cover to cover and then using for reference.

Do anyone know if the Spanish ever made an 8ga. or made a 10ga. on a 8ga.frame?If so what company them.And last what can i buy that would a chapter on the 8ga.shotgun?

I believe the DIARM years were the late 1980s. One of the best sources for info on Spanish shotguns is the Yahoo Spanish Shotgun Group. There's a lot of disinformation floating around about Spanish shotguns. One is about "soft steel" and another is about barrel quality. Not to say that there haven't been QC problems with specific guns, but much of the negatives have been way overblown. Most of the time it's been an issue of using guns for purposes they weren't intended for, such as using light/medium game guns for heavy use such as in duck hunting. The Spanish industry was/is like any other country's, they produced requested guns to be sold at specific price points, with the quality to match. It's also an industry with rich and interesting traditions, primarily small artisan shops producing limited numbers of guns much like Birmingham, Liege, Suhl, or the Val Trompia..

There's quite a few deals on Spanish shotguns out there, I personally know of quite a few, from basic AYA boxlocks for a couple of hundred dollars, to sidelocks running around a Grand. If you're interested, I posted the sidelock info over on the Yahoo group thread when I ran across them. If you can't find the posts, PM me and I'll try to give you a specific link.

Don't know of a production 8 bore but Zabala made a 10 bore ,cheap and a bit rough , some of these were bored out to 8 , that is re-chambered and bored up effectively an 8 bore chambered 9 bore but they did not stand up to prolonged use age .

You're right, there aren't any simple answers :-(

Let me provide some background for context.

Spanish shotgun makers are generally artisanal, meaning each gun is individually made to a customer's specification and for a specific purpose - and at a specific price point. The price point is largely determined by how much hand labor is going to be required to make the gun.

Let's do side lock guns.

Here is a low price point side lock:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=416923154

What makes this a low price point gun is the engraving, which is mostly roll marked.

Here is a medium price point gun:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=417168740

Hand engraved gun, but the engraving pattern is simple and coverage is only in the 70% range

This is a very high price point gun:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=417947846

Engraving pattern is fine, complicated, and coverage is 100%.

Now: two of the definitions of value that I use; gun value and social value.

Gun value is determined by how well the gun works. Guns that work well, seldom need repair, and last forever have high gun value. All three of the above guns have equally high gun value, as field guns.

Social value has a slippery definition. In short, the more people who stop and go "Oh, wow!" when a gun is uncased, the higher the social value. Price point tends to follow social value.

Another factor that has an impact on gun price point (and re-sale gavel price) is the purpose to which a gun was made. Upland game hunters tend to pay a premium for light game guns (a light game gun in 12 gauge will be chambered for s 2.5 or 2.75 cartridge, and weigh six to six-and-a-half pounds). Competition shooters, especially live pigeon shooters, will pay a substantial premium for a gun built as a heavy competition gun.

Switching to box lock guns...

The Spanish view box lock guns as having social value inferior to that of side lock guns. Spanish gun makers can, have and still do make expensive box lock guns - but they'd rather not. The upshot of this is Spanish box lock guns tend to be very inexpensive in comparison to Spanish side lock guns.

If you are looking for a field gun, maximum gun value and don't much care about social value, here are some guns to look over:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=418080242

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=415902830

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=417386812

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=417386812

Did this help, at least a little?