doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com " United We Stand"

Well, I think activism must move forward on the broadest possible front.

Last Friday the leader of the Green Party of Canada, Elizabeth May. made a non-compete deal with the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada to try to beat the sitting Conservative MP, Foreign Minister Peter MacKay, in the riding where I live.

Friday night Elizabeth, an anti, celebrated her coup at our home here in the woods with pasta and red wine. We talked gun control. Saturday night I met with Peter, who is working flat out to get rid of the long-gun registry.

I've been working with Peter on this for years. Coming Saturday I'll be schmoozing at the "non-political" Ducks Unlimited dinner to bring some friends around to our view. The anti socialist party federal candidate is visiting us next week.

And so it goes, as Vonnegut said. Moving anything forward can't be done along partisan lines. There's no progress talking to friends. It doesn't work that way here.

Jim Legg: I have taught kids to shoot and earn their firearm safety certificates. And testified in public hearings against gun control. And had RKBA letters published in the media. And written and talked about Second Amendment rights to politicians and in public forums. And contributed to RKBA, hunting and habitat causes. I've been doing this for almost half a century. I am NOT a "do-nothing freeloader." And I am NOT the NRA.

Why do you think it is a good idea to rip and snarl and hurl childish insults at others who are working hard to protect RKBA, just because they don't join your club? Has it occurred to you that bully-boy attitudes like that might be one of the reasons why so many of the 95% of gun owners are not joining the NRA? If you want to preach unity, Jim, maybe you should start by backing off your attacks.

Dig,
I'm not sure it is possible to say that the NRA is comprised of any specific type of majority, rather it is made up of what can only be called Americans, though I'm sure there are some foreign members too. It caters to multiple interests with the common thread being firearms and it is substantively inclusive rather than exclusive, as is proper. That same multi-faceted perspective in all things firearm related causes the NRA to be unpopular with some. For those persons, it is still possible for them to send a contribution to the NRA-ILA [Institute for Legislative Action] and they will never get so much as the first solicitation to become a member, they will receive no magazine and the money sent WILL be used toward favorable firearms legislation and second ammendment protection.

Their snail mail addy for anyone interested is:

NRA-ILA
11250 Waples Road
Fairfax, VA 22030
USA

BTW, with the Pound Sterling at two bucks, I'm sure they would be happy to have any contributions from our good friends in the Isles, it will help to insure that we retain the right to buy those wonderful Brit doubles that are held so dear on both sides of the pond and anywhere else that fine guns are appreciated. They will come a bit more dear too, at the current exchange rate, ya know;-)I think it would be quite fitting for one of your field guns on the queue for a re-stock to sport an NRA-ILA sticker, a fine badge of honor, that.

All the best, my friend,
tw

edit: for those concerned this was NOT written as an exclusionist note, rather it [NRA-ILA] is a place that provides a known good 'bang for the buck'. I too have raised monies for other orgs that interface with wildlife and shooting sports as well as becoming a member of some and supporter of others. Heck, I've even taken members of both parties hunting, but not at the same time. And I don't think the world is flat, even though it mostly is once you're up on the caprock. I prefer the Wichita breaks myself.

"Jim Legg: I have taught kids to shoot and earn their firearm safety certificates. And testified in public hearings against gun control. And had RKBA letters published in the media. And written and talked about Second Amendment rights to politicians and in public forums. And contributed to RKBA, hunting and habitat causes. I've been doing this for almost half a century. I am NOT a "do-nothing freeloader." And I am NOT the NRA."

"Why do you think it is a good idea to rip and snarl and hurl childish insults at others who are working hard to protect RKBA, just because they don't join your club? Has it occurred to you that bully-boy attitudes like that might be one of the reasons why so many of the 95% of gun owners are not joining the NRA? If you want to preach unity, Jim, maybe you should start by backing off your attacks."
[/quote]
Jack,
I have not done anything you said in the above quote. I have not attacked anyone but the freeloaders who do not support ANY pro-gun group. I pointed out the FACT that the NRA is the most effective one. I am not a "bully-boy". The 95% of the gun owners who do not support ANY pro-gun group are damn well freeloaders and cheapskates. The very reason I did my post was because of your attack on the NRA. What purpose do you think attacking the NRA serves? Supporting ANY pro-gun group is better than nothing. The only people I have quarrel with are the do-nothing, cheap-assed, free-loaders who don't give a dime to any pro-gun group. Try to read and understand what my posts say instead of accusing me of what I didn't say. They are pretty clear to everyone else.

I don't think anyone has said not to support every pro gun organization out there that you have the time and or money for. The bottom line is, like it or not, the NRA has the most clout and the more members they have will only increase there clout. So could Jack or anyone else who for whatever reason they have not to join the NRA explain there reasons for not? Sure seems like we could do better than 5% and I seriously don't understand peoples apathy towards something they claim to hold so dear as their gun rights....

I let my membership lapse for three reasons:

1. Annoying and constant stream of mail solicitation.
2. Irrational attitude towards any form of firearms responsibility, such as blocking attempts to require background checks.
3. Disabusing of any notion of political objectivity, having become basically another defacto wing of the Republican party.

I would consider re-joining if the above were to change, but I doubt they will.

You asked.

Marklart, I bet your favorite gun isn't perfect either.
Nothing is - my good man!

Jack, your a smart man, and you known what I mean.
The bigger the backbone puts the fear into these left leaning gun bashers. Btw Jack, they spew against what you take and do in the field daily.
Fight back!

I have been a member of the NRA for over 30 years and a life member for 25 of them. I have seen the changes and confusion surrounding the organization for a very long time.

Small Bore, Many see the NRA as an organization that only caters to the self defense crowd, I believe that this is a misconception. They have many, many other aspects, The Eddie the Eagle program for educating yong people on gun safety, support for firearms museums, legal teams to protect the right to keep and bear arms, support for local gun ownership groups, etc. The publication "American Rifleman" continually has articles about martial weapons dating back to the revolution, articles about gun history, articles about significant individuals within the industry or politics. The NRA is much more than the self defense crouwd.

To Marklart regarding his reasons for letting his membership lapse.

1) I continually receive mail, e-mail and phone calls from the NRA for one reason or another. Do I find them annoying? Yes, I certainly do! But, not nearly as annoying as the "Brady Bunch" or Rosie O'!! I can simply toss the NRA's annoyance into the trash, I wish I could do the same with those that oppose my rights.

2) Yes, some of their attitudes do seem inflexible (I prefer to call them inflexible rather than irrational). Remember they are in a very tough postion by being the ones that wear the mantle of being the spear point in the battle of our 2nd ammendment rights. They have to be inflexible! You have to negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness. While I too disagree with some of the positions and comments by the NRA, those are a tiny minortiy of the total.

3) Political objectivity? I think on this comment you may have it backwards. It appears that the democrat party has abandoned the NRA, not the other way around. As far as objectivity is concerned, the NRA in rating politicians are actually pretty un-biased. They simply rate based upon the individual politician's position on the principles of gun ownership, basically calling a spade a spade without regard to party affiliation. Period. That is about as politically objective as one can get.

I agree with Jim Legg and Lowell. There is strength in numbers and the NRA needs our numbers and support. While other gun organizations may be better suited to one's own opinions and leanings, none have more clout than the NRA. I don't feel that there is a member of this board that cannot afford to be a member of more than one of these organizations but among those, one should be the NRA.

The NRA is the one that is feared by the control freaks while the other ancillary organizations are never given a second thought. We have to support the one that the anti's fear the most and that IS the NRA.

Rant over.

Smallbore, we have something on the order of 15-20 million hunters in this country, so it's not a small group by any means. But while all hunters are gun owners (excepting perhaps a scattered few bow purists), the majority of gun owners aren't hunters. And while there are some American gun owners who are willing to sacrifice the gun rights of others ("assault" rifles, handguns, etc), most realize that's the slippery slope to gun control hell.

Jack, I'm also an Ike, and I also teach hunter education at my local Ikes chapter (which is where most of the hunter ed courses in Iowa are taught). Having said that, your holding up the Ikes as a group that's going to stand up for the 2nd amendment is on pretty shaky ground. Individual Ikes, such as you or me, might do that. But in thinking over what I read in their magazine, Outdoor America (the most recent issue of which I just received) or in our local chapter newsletter, I cannot recall the last time I ever saw anything about gun rights, or about the Ikes lobbying Congress on gun rights issues. Their focus is mostly environmental, with a strong hunter/angler base, and they do run a lot of shooting ranges. But I don't think the Ikes are front and center in the 2nd amendment battles on the Hill. The NRA may not be the only organization that is (but they're certainly the most powerful), but can you show examples of the IWLA fighting that particular fight?

Jim: your words speak for themselves. Calling other RKBA supporters "wannabes" and saying they "divide gun owners." You might learn something from the Bush administration, which has assiduously courted allies regardless of their "muscle" and makes a point of calling the effort in Iraq a "coalition." The point is that pi$$ing on your allies is not a good idea.

At no time have I "attacked" - or even mildly criticized - the NRA. Only NRA members who insist that they're the only game in town and denigrate others. My reasons for no longer being a member are strongly felt, but not for public display, for the reason cited above.

Larry: If you spend any time in DC talking to members of congress, you'll find that the IWLA is greatly respected on both sides of the aisle, and that they are well aware that the Ikes support hunting, gun ownership and the Second Amendment. Ike ethics, hunter safety and shooting programs across the country have put a positive face on gun ownership for many years. One thing that contributes to the Ikes' effectiveness is that they haven't antagonized a lot of people.

No part of the Constitution - including the Second Amendment - will stand without public support. That means gun owners need to maintain a dialogue with people across the political spectrum, and work together with any and all allied organizations. Mutual respect is the first step in that process.