doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Your sporting shotguns are just as much at risk

Geo, if you are really doing those things... aside from joining a local militia group... and you are also calling, writing, and e-mailing your elected representatives... then you don't have to be defensive about this. You are not the problem.

But more than 9 out of 10 gun owners do not belong to the NRA, or even donate a few bucks when the NRA is fighting to maintain our rights.

Many gun owners obviously don't even think about the Second Amendment when they enter the voting booth. The proof is in the White House.

Many more gun owners don't even bother to vote. And they sure as hell can't be bothered to call their Congressman to counter the lie that a majority of gun owners want Universal Registration and so-called sensible gun laws. That's sad.

Brian is correct to bring the results of the New York SAFE Act to everyone's attention. Too many gun owners are too complacent and simply lack knowledge about the very real threats we face every day. Thousands of law abiding gun owners in Connecticut are now felons because they have not complied with similar letters from the government telling them to surrender certain sporting firearms. The only reason they got those letters was because those guns were registered and the government knew they had them.

Yet recall that in the Supreme Court decision of Haynes vs. the United States, the court ruled that felons cannot be compelled to register their guns because that would violate their Fifth Amendment right to not incriminate themselves. The Universal Gun Registration that Obama wants is aimed at us... not criminals.

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.haynes.html

Many gun owners do not like to be reminded that they aren't doing enough to protect our Civil Rights under the 2nd Amendment. That's too bad. It's the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. Some would say that creates "schisms", but where's the harm in alienating someone who will never do anything to help anyway? Pretending to be alienated is just a convenient excuse for many. It's easier to not fall into a hole than to dig yourself out of one, so we need to be proactive instead of just reactive. I disagree with King that it's just a matter of the urbanization of America that will lead to our decline. There are nearly 50% more guns in the U.S. than there were 15 years ago. The interest in guns and shooting is still there. It's the interest in maintaining our rights that needs work... lots of work.

"What else do you think we ought to do? Join a militia and camp out on weekends to practice fire and maneuver troop movements?...Geo"

Members acknowledge there's a need for something else to protect from incursions which are as much a result of how your governance is structured i.e. the Second means something in some districts and nothing in others.

Members also acknowledge what's not working despite their joining, communicating with their elected, contributing generously to their lobbies, setting good examples in their communities. But no mention of organizing.

Public and corporate cultural change---organizational change are the same things although managerial change is more analytical, culture more emotional requiring greater sensitivity and patience.

There's been significant corporate change as environmentalists invaded the boardrooms of corporate North America. Not always from science-based evidence or reason but because their catchy messages "resonated" with wide audiences.

The incursions will expand as long as the fraternity holds on to what's not working. Organize as we did here, with the caveat that nothing is ever safe or certain with any law or Amendment.

PS: I cautioned earlier that one culture cannot be imposed on another. An example is your Act of 2,300 pages, ours of 13 pages which literally turned a public service upside-down. Let's not breathe its name here on the front page.

The primary things to do are those Keith alluded to in his above post. The major problems we are fighting in addition to apathy on the part of firearms owners is gross misinformation perpetuated by "progressives" in collusion with the "mainstream news media". "FACT: THE NEWS IN THIS COUNTRY IS NO LONGER OBJECTIVELY REPORTED ANY MORE THAN IT'S OBJECTIVELY REPORTED BY PRAVDA IN RUSSIA.
Gun owners are universally painted as at best uncivilized oafs and at worse potential criminals much as Janet Napolitiano(Homeland Security) labeled are returning veterans as potential terrorists who shouldn't be permitted to possess guns.
We have to counter this impression given to most Americans and the ONE effective way we can do it is on the Internet which the "progressives" have not been able to muzzle as of yet.
It's up to all of you to determine what the future holds in regard to freedom for our children and grandchildren.
As an aside: I want to thank Dave for not relegating this thread to Internet Purgatory probably to the chagrin of the antis who lurk here.
Jim

They just convicted a guy in DC for having ONE (1) shotgun shell and several round lead muzzloader balls in his house. The SWAT team raid found them without a search warrant. None - zero - guns on the premises at all.'
I have begun to think that I may have to literally stand behind that "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hands" statement.

The Internet like Fox can play both ways, as GOP elders discovered in their commissioned study of their 2012 defeat. Obama won 55 per cent of women who vote in larger numbers than men, 71 per cent of Hispanic vote and 73 per cent of Asians, 60 per cent of groups under 30---all groups growing as share of population. He targeted voters most likely to influence future elections.

There's a lesson here for our sporting fraternity. The study authors made clear that Fox network polemical programming was a major part of GOP's problem. "The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself" ..."and become expert in how to provide ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us."

It's a daily diet here. Divisive, self-defeating.

Keith makes some great points,especially supporting the NRA,they ARE winning the argument and need ALL gun owners support.


In a March 28th column for The Atlantic, Conor Friedersdorf said the NRA keeps winning the gun conversation by countering the left's shame tactics with effective persuasion.


"Through it all, the NRA was there to remind gun owners and Americans of all stripes that the right to keep and bear arms is a God-given right and one that is intrinsic to the American experience. While the left jeered gun owners, the NRA cheered a mother's right to defend her own life and the lives of her family."


No need to pander to "moderates" in power like those in NY Republican part who voted for the SAFE act,get them out or those RINO's will lead us down the path to confiscation !

Biggest problem is the left wins because they keep giving away America. Cell phones, housing, utilities, food,tax refunds for those who don't pay taxes, social security for those who never payed into the system,medical care, etc. The list goes on. Once the slackers learned they can game the system and vote themselves freebies from the public largesse, then the downward spiral began and will continue. Political corruption, academia calling for the extermination of "the gringo" by any means. Every day the droning (no pun intended) gets louder. We need to turn this ship around before it's too late and we become Europe. Term limits for all politicians, eliminate their pensions and bennies until death, get rid of the 2 party system and enforce the laws on not just "We the People", but on those who write those draconian laws.

ItalianSxS has nailed it in my opinion. He says:

"FACT: THE NEWS IN THIS COUNTRY IS NO LONGER OBJECTIVELY REPORTED ANY MORE THAN IT'S OBJECTIVELY REPORTED BY PRAVDA IN RUSSIA.

That is what is wrong with our country. Owning the news is a very effective way to control the minds of the citizens. It works. I liken it to advertising. Corporations spend billions on it because it works. Repeat a message over and over and after a while people believe it. Own the news and repeat the message and the people become sheep. Watch the news make fun of a candidate and they are finished. Look at Sarah Palin. They destroyed her in a month.

I don't know how to counter that. The internet does not seem to have the impact we hoped for. Maybe because we send our messages from our address book which is composed of like minded friends.

We need to point out that if they take away our second amendment rights is it possible to eliminate other amendments and rights. Would your friends and acquaintances believe that? Probably not because "guns" are a special case. I am sure every news channel would say that.

King, where is this quote taken from? It should be required reading here for all. Ideological reinforcement! The circle jerk we all participate in here. Driving away those gun owners who haven't yet seen the light. To me, it's dumb.

And imagining that a gun owner who currently supports some form of gun regs is a lost cause while thinking we will do better with a non gun owner.....that just doesn't follow.

Perpetually slandering and belittling others will never win converts.....gun owners may today be a large enough group, if we could get them all to vote smartly, but will they be as large 30 years from now. As King has so aptly described about his own behaviour in past threads, the drip drip drip of incremental gun regs serves to dissuade both current owners and future generations from bothering. At some point the hassle isn't worth it.

Circling the wagons is not a long term solution.

Builder, I would say that is a very astute observation. Who do we communicate with? Should be obvious but it's not and yet it goes to the heart of the problem I mention in my previous post. Preaching to the choir while crapping on the rest.