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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,785 Likes: 673
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,785 Likes: 673 |
Since the gun was a fairly high priced quality double in excellent condition... and the ejectors worked with snap caps and for the first several shots... is it possible the problem is one of dirt or congealed lube? Did your friend have it fixed?
I tend to agree that a vintage double has a finite lifespan, and the dealer has little control over say a spring that may have taken a "set" from being left compressed while the gun was stored. He also doesn't know if the gun was fired in the first week with one box of shells, or was taken to Argentina on a dove hunt where it is fired almost to the brink of the rib joint solder melting. The seller ought to clearly state their return or warranty policy, and the buyer should ask about that before the purchase.
If you sold a low miles 1939 Rolls Royce in great condition that always started and ran perfectly without any sign of engine problems... and the guy who bought it called after a week and said the motor blew up... would you just pay to fix it or give him his money back when it's possible he was drag racing or forgot to put in fresh oil after draining the old stuff out? This is a very gray area.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1356
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1356 |
Larry,
In the past when I've bought a "money" double gun, as opposed to something common, I've had the dealer ship the gun straight to Kirk Merrington. I've heard some dealers aren't interested in doing business this way, but, Gary, at Osprey, was an example of a guy who had no qualms about doing this. I paid for shipping and Kirk's honest opinion. The gun I bought from Gary was an older MacNaughton, and Kirk gave the gun a clean bill of health. I used it for several seasons and sent it down the road.
If a dealer isn't interested in Kirk's opinion, at my expense, on a good double gun, he can keep it. I simply would never consider buying a gun, of any type, at an auction, of any type.
I only sold new Darnes, back in the day, and didn't offer a specific warranty, but, told customers I wanted to know if they had a problem. Had just a few problems with customer guns, that I always used and paid Kirk to handle. Never had a complaint on a board or to my face about the work he did or how I handled it.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165 |
Since the gun was a fairly high priced quality double in excellent condition... and the ejectors worked with snap caps and for the first several shots... is it possible the problem is one of dirt or congealed lube? Did your friend have it fixed?
I tend to agree that a vintage double has a finite lifespan, and the dealer has little control over say a spring that may have taken a "set" from being left compressed while the gun was stored. He also doesn't know if the gun was fired in the first week with one box of shells, or was taken to Argentina on a dove hunt where it is fired almost to the brink of the rib joint solder melting. The seller ought to clearly state their return or warranty policy, and the buyer should ask about that before the purchase.
If you sold a low miles 1939 Rolls Royce in great condition that always started and ran perfectly without any sign of engine problems... and the guy who bought it called after a week and said the motor blew up... would you just pay to fix it or give him his money back when it's possible he was drag racing or forgot to put in fresh oil after draining the old stuff out? This is a very gray area. He did not have it fixed. Still attempting to work out the problem with the dealer. Seems to me something like ejectors on a Brit double aren't quite the same as the motor blowing up on a Rolls. If something fails on a gun 6 months after purchase, and especially if the buyer has put a lot of rounds through the gun, then I'd say it's on the buyer. But if it fails in the first round or two of trap or skeet or sporting clays, I'd expect the seller to stand behind his gun.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 78 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 78 Likes: 4 |
Bob Cash,
I second your assessment of Vintage Firearms, Grand Rapids, MI. An excellent firm to do business with and with one of the best descriptions of his guns on his website. He will stand behind his guns, 100%. I know from experience.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268 |
Larry, I would agree with your conclusions: In this case the dealer should pay.
If the buyer had owned the gun for a month; he would be on his own, but not if this were the first time he shot it.
Dealers don't test fire guns....they generally don't have the time or the resources. But...a Ten Grand gun on it's first outing four days after purchase? Dealer needs to fix it.
Sam Ogle
Sam Ogle
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
A deal is a deal. If during the inspection the gun had failed to eject the snap caps then the dealer pays or takes the gun back. In this case the buyer pays.
The dealer, for purposes of goodwill, might choose to repair the gun. But it is his choice. He is under no legal or moral obligation to do so.
I would expect that sometimes a writer of shotgun articles gets the advantage of a dealer's discretion when I wouldn't. No criticism of the practice or the writer. Just saying Larry's personal experience may be different than ours in this situation.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 602 Likes: 39
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 602 Likes: 39 |
I'll name 3 dealers that either paid for repair or promptly refunded my money for used guns that had hidden issues or developed malfunctions shortly after purchase:
Jaqua's, Steve Cobb, Cabela's.
They didn't have to take care of me but they did & I still do business with all of them & I recommend them to others. It's simply smart business to operate this way.
That said, in buying used guns I normally ask for a 3 day shooting inspection & I usually get agreement on this.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,264 Likes: 92
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,264 Likes: 92 |
The dealer, for purposes of goodwill, might choose to repair the gun. But it is his choice. He is under no legal or moral obligation top do so.
If the dealer has any business savvy at all, he wouldn't hesitate at repairing the gun. I can only speak from my own business experiences, these actions go a long way toward promoting additional sales.
Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
But if it fails in the first round or two of trap or skeet or sporting clays, I'd expect the seller to stand behind his gun.
And you'd make sure the seller had the same expectation before handing over the cash?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
I own a small contracting company. We sometimes, for purposes of goodwill, pay for things that weren't our fault. But it is our choice and for our advantage if we decide to do so. If we refuse to go above and beyond the contract for a customer he was not wronged.
Sometimes when we choose not to go above and beyond it was because the customer drove an extremely hard bargain in the price negotiations. Or he was a general pain in the ass to deal with and we don't care if he comes back. But we do not wrong him when we decline to comp some cost over and above the deal we made.
Several years ago my dispatcher bought a new car over a weekend. On Monday morning the salesman showed up at our offices with a bouquet and a cooky basket for her. I winced. When I buy a new car I hope I made such a good deal that the sales manager will be standing on the parking lot giving me the finger as I drive off in my new car. I don't expect a lot of comp after I make that deal. But if I don't get it I wasn't wronged.
I am glad to be here.
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