doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who pays: Seller or buyer?

Ted,

I totally agree with this approach and that is what I do most every time. I have the seller send my purchases to JJ Perodeau for inspection and JJ gives the OK (or not).
He found stuff that nobody knew anything about, and some times stuff that the seller should certainly have known about.
No dealer has refused yet to send guns to him for inspection.
If they did I would run away.
If JJ does find something, then I have a lot more leverage than if it's just me saying it. It does help me get a discount if I still want it.
By the way, I do send a letter with each check and specifies my conditions. If the seller cashes the check, he implicitly agrees to my conditions.

I stand behind my first post.
If any problem arises after the 3 day period, then the buyer is on his own, unless he can prove the seller knew about undisclosed issues.
If the seller helps, then kudos to him.

Best regards,
WC-

Being a writer might have made a difference . . . before the Internet. But no magazine I'm aware of is likely to carry a complaint from me over a gun deal I made. doublegunshop.com and other BB's on the other hand . . . we all have the power to complain. And to a targeted market of potential buyers.

I think you may have missed my point. So we'll say the water pump or alternator quit on the Rolls after 4 days. Unless there was a specific and agreed upon warranty expressed or implied, I'd say the buyer eats the cost. Anyone who offers a bullet proof warranty will need to charge higher prices to compensate for warranty repairs or replacement. We've heard various opinions of what a reasonable period for a gun dealer to stand 100% behind his guns is. Whether it's 3 days non-firing or 30 days of unlimited firing, the dealer has no control of what the buyer does after it is out of his sight. I used the example of someone adding thousands of rounds of wear and tear on an Argentina dove shoot as an extreme example. I still think that it's possible that since your friend's gun quit ejecting after several days, the problem may be nothing more than one of dirt or lubrication. Also, there are examples of guys just buying a gun so they can exchange hard to find broken or worn parts from their own gun, and then returning the new model within the inspection period.

I've often wondered how a dealer might know if I've fired a used gun during a 3-day non-firing inspection as long as I thoroughly clean it before returning it???

I totally agree about the goodwill thing, but I also agree with AmarilloMike that it should be on a case by case basis.

I knew a dealer who'd put a piece of cellophane tape down inside one of the barrels. Shooting or cleaning would wipe out the tape.

And the power to publicly praise, or not.

Sounds like "Urban Legend" to me. It would be really tough for the buyer to accurately measure bore diameter & bbl wall thickness with tape in the bore & not know about the tape & I wouldn't want to deal with the return of a gun to this dealer.

This whole issue boils down to legal responsibility, which is determined (mostly) by the contract between the buyer & seller.

Moral responsibility, which is dependent on what ever concept of morals the seller & buyer have (some people I've known think that they are pillars of the community but skinning someone in a gun or car deal is perfectly OK & just good sport).

And finally, good business practices & from what has been posted about Larry's friend's deal I would think the dealer would want to make it right if he intends to do much in the used gun business but as in most disputes there may be more to it.

Well, the standard used car deal--not talking newer ones on which dealers often offer longer and more comprehensive warranties--was, for a very long time, 30 days or 1,000 miles. The used car dealer, like the gun dealer, doesn't know what the buyer is going to do within that warranty period, once it's out of his sight. Assuming a 3-day inspection period, no firing allowed: how about a gun that does not fire (broken striker or something) which you do not catch with snap caps and through a visual inspection? Seems to me, especially if you spend a lot of money on a gun, it really ought to go "bang".

If the seller agrees to send the gun to a reputable gunsmith, like Kirk Merrington or JJ Perodeau, that's one solution. Another is Jay Schacter's warranty that the mechanics of the gun are also good--and in that case, the seller is taking on the added responsibility (and cost) of making sure that everything is in working order, vs the buyer.

A tiny little piece of tape on the end of a pencil placed a few inches down the barrel.
What's so hard to believe?

The age of the shotgun wasn't specified. Many of the graded Fox's, Parker's, and Lefever's are now a century old. No one can hope to predict when a hundred-year-old part might decide to break.

My personal opinion is that whenever I shoot one of these older beauties, I'm mentally prepared for the possibiity of a part failure. Often one of my SxS's is at the gunsmith's awaiting repair or refreshing. That in itself is a rationale for owning several SxS's.

The real answer is to have a clear understanding between the buyer nd seller - preferably written - before consumating the purchase.

JERRY

Some problems just will not show up until a gun is fired. What if the gun in questioned doubled when fired. All the snap caps in the world would not reveal that problem. Would you not expect the buyer to contact the seller in that case and expect some help, repairs or full refund? Careful inspections can only find so many flaws. I think it is not unreasonable to expect the dealer to share in if not pickup the entire cost of this repair.

A reputation is a very easy thing to ruin and almost impossible to get back. For a few bucks the dealer is playing a very bad game of Russian Roulette. Will the buyer cry foul and post his name all over the internet? Will he never buy another gun from him again? Repeat customers are the lifeline of major dealers. Will he bad mouth the dealer, telling his version of the truth, to many potential future buyers?

Look at it this way. A dealer spends big bucks advertising or paying for several tables at a major show. Is he going to refuse to take care of legitimate problems and not expect that to cost him more money in the long run? I think most major dealers are smarter than that. I would call him back and ask him directly is he going to stand behind this gun. Hidden flaws, hidden problem is not buyer beware. It is sorry I did not know that and let me help you with it. You may save a few hundred dollars on a repair and end up getting ten grand in bad publicity. Not a smart decision.