doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Another 160 year old!

I received this today. She's a 12 bore front loader. On the locks it says George Deane and Deane. On the rib it says Deane, Adams & Deane Makers for H.R. H. Prince Albert 30 King Williams Street London Bridge. Serial number is 105. I don't have a wall thickness gauge but at the very tip of the muzzles they measure .025" with my caliper. Bores have the typical brownish staining. The barrels ring like a bell and have no dents. The biggest disappointment is the forearm has been poorly repaired (see pic) where the ramrod goes in. I think I shall have it repaired a little "better". The locks work great. The fellow I got it from was using it recently to hunt rabbits and grouse. All in all I guess not bad condition for 160 years old.

Wonderful and unique old gun. You did well taking it under your care. Thanks for sharing!

Those English muzzleloaders are just fantastic guns. And at this point I have heard so many people say that their English muzzleloader have locks that are crisp and still function flawlessly, that I'm starting to accept that as a common trait.

The term "Well Built" doesn't even begin to adequately describe an English shotgun. Regardless of the name.

Brian, that's a beauty. Well done. One more of yours I'm looking forward to seeing in the flesh.

what has surprised me with these old gals is how well they fit, the stock dimensions on the ones i have handled are not that far off what we consider "modern"

get some black powder, call Circle Fly for the various wads and have fun.

From the IGC

George Deane was originally in business in 1785 as a hardwareman (ironmonger) and patent shot warehouse at 39 Fish Street Hill. All his descendants and probably his forebears were hardwaremen and ironmongers, but as was usual at that time they dealt in guns and shooting requisites.

In 1799 Edward Deane (son?), assisted by George and probably other members of the family (another Edward?), took over all or part of his business which Edward described, for the purpose of advertising his gun related activities, as a gun maker, patent shot, gunpowder, gun flint & shooting tackle warehouse.

In 1803 the business at 39 Fish Street Hill was sold to Jackson Mortimer but the hardware side of the business moved to 41 Fish Street Hill and Corner of Arthur Street Monument, and it continued until 1830 when George and John Deane (grandsons?) took over as wholesale ironmongers.

In 1838 the firm moved to 46 King William Street and was described as a gun and pistol warehouse, ironmonger, cutler and jeweller.

The 1841 census records an Edward Deane as 64 years old (b.1777) and of independent means but obviously fairly wealthy, living in Gloucester Terrace, Stepney with his wife Elizabeth (b.1768). He may or may not have been connected but this census also records George Deane aged 52 (b.1799) and described as a furnishing ironmonger. He was staying on the night of the census with the Burditt family at 4 Belgrave Terrace , Upper Holloway.

The 1841 census records John Deane (b.1805) living at Camberwell Green with his wife, Annette Phillips Deane (b.1811) and their children John (b.1830), George (b.1838), Edward (b.1839) and Asperne (b.1840). John described himself as a warehouseman. George does not appear to have been recorded in the census.

In 1843 George and John Deane registered a design for a percussion lock with a detachable cone on the hammer (Reg. Design No. 7754). How successful this was is not known but it proves that the Deanes were capable gun makers. It was at about this date that Robert Adams arrived in London from Devon and started working for the Deanes.

In 1846 the firm moved, or the gun making side of the business moved, to 30 King William Street where they traded as George & John Deane at the "City of London Gun Manufactory". Robert Adams was appointed as manager. The business was described as gun and pistol manufacturers, and advertised "walking cane, rifle and air guns" on their trade cards.

By this time the gun making side of the firm must have established a very good reputation because in 1848 the Deanes, who were all freemen of the city of London, were appointed Gunmakers to Prince Albert. What they supplied to Price Albert is not known but in 1851 they exhibited a revolver electro-plated with silver at the Great Exhibition, and won prize medals for double and single barrel guns "perfectly finished". Robert Adams also exhibited so in some way he was operating separately from the Deanes. After the Exhibition the business was re-named Deane & Co.

The 1851 census records John Deane living at Tulse Hill, Lower Norwood with Annette and their sons. John described himself as a general merchant. The family, obviously wealthy, employed a nurse, housemaid, cook and groom.

George appears to have retired or died in 1852, and John and his son John Jnr and Robert Adams became partners in the gun making firm of Deane, Adams & Deane. A factory was opened at 1 New Weston Street, Tooley Street with a shooting gallery at 1 Maze, Tooley Street.

On 7 October 1851 John or George or Robert Adams registered a patent for a ???? (patent No. unknown). A manufacturing licence for this patent was granted on 15 November 1852 to A Francotte of Liege.

In 1853 the firm won a bronze medal for a fowling piece at the New York Exhibition.

In 1855 the firm won a Prize medal at the Paris Universal Exhibition ("carabines, rifles et fusils de chasse, pistolet et revolver").

In 1856 the Deane Adams & Deane partnership was terminated with John Deane and his son and Robert Adams forming a partnership known as John Deane & Sons at 30 King William Street. At the same time Robert and John Adams and James Kerr invited unknown people, which probably included John Deane and John Jnr and also William Harding, to become shareholders with them in London Armoury Company Limited. Robert was appointed manager. London Armoury Co was established at Railway Arches, Henry Street, Bermondsey Street, a short distance away from Deane & Co�s premises in New Weston Street, Tooley Street. James Kerr (in some reports incorrectly referred to as John Kerr) was appointed superintendent (see James Kerr & Co).

In 1857 the address of the factory changed to 2 New Weston Street, but it appears to have soon moved to 1 Maze although the 2 New Weston Street premises were retained. On 13 October 1857 Edward Deane, presumably John's son, registered patent No. 2615 (one source says 2636) for a concealed pistol in a sword hilt.

London Armoury Co were contractors to Ordnance for revolvers, rifle locks and sights, and contractors to the East India Company for revolvers. They also made Robert Adams' revolvers under his patents (See Robert Adams).

On 23 March 1860 William Harding and John Dean registered patent Nos.669 (and 1155 or 1159?) for a 5 shot double action revolver (Harding had a previous patent No. 1574 for cartridge tubes attached to a holster and covered by the holster flap); they made these themselves but also licensed Calisher & Terry, Pryse & Redman, and Tipping & Lawden to make them.

On 23 March 1860 John Deane and his son and William Harding took out a patent for a multi-barrel volley gun (No.762).

The 1861 census records John Jnr as a visitor at Belford Lodge, Stockwell, which was the home of the Boucher family. He was staying there together with his wife, Sophie (b.1833) and their children, John William (b.1858), George Asperne (b.1860) and Sophia Jane Sarah (b.1861). The same census records Annette, George's widow, living at Amana Lodge, Tulse Hill, with John Snr and his other children, George, Edward and Asperne, all were described as ironmongers but Edward and Asperne were destined to become professors of music.

On 8 March 1862 John Deane Jnr was granted patent No. 626 for a modified revolver chamber. On 13 August 1863 Edward was granted patent no. 2005 for a rifle bore that in cross-section was triangular.

John Snr died in the mid to late 1860s. In the 1871 census Annette was recorded living at 18 Fort Crescent, Margate, Kent, with a nurse. John Jnr and Sophie were recorded at the same address on the night of the census, John Jnr describing himself as a contractor for small arms.

John Jnr retired in 1873, a very wealthy man, and the firm was sold, almost certainly to London Armoury Co. John was recorded in the 1881 census as a retired gun maker living at 36 Windsor Road, Ealing, with Sophie, John William and George Asperne (both described as clerks on the Stock Exchange), Sophia Jane Sarah, and four previously unrecorded children, Edward Butt Deane, (b.1862 and described as a clerk at the City of London Court), Annette Sarah Asperne Deane (b.1863), Florence Ada Deane (b.1865), Frederick Charles Deane (b.1867) and Stanley Bertram Deane (b.1871). Also recorded in the 1881 census was George Deane who had married Effie (nee Sivington b.1840) and at the age of 43 was a retired gun manufacturer living on his own means.

The 1891 census records John and his family living at 44 Windsor Road. George Asperne was still a stockbroker's clerk, Sophie Jane Sarah was a professor of music as was Annette Sarah Asperne, Frederick Charles was a clerk for a glove manufacturer and Stanley Bertram was a banker's clerk. Amusingly, Florence A and Emily B (previously unrecorded b.1869) were described as living at home doing nothing.

Pete

Wow, thanks Pete. That is a wealth of information.

Then, as we all know, tragedy struck the gun industry when those stinkin, low down, snake-in-the-grass breechloaders started showing up.

A stupid question, but what's the proper name for the metal piece that's missing out of the forearm on this gun where the ramrod goes in? Going to try a locate a replacement of some sort.

Gunsaholic

Its name here in Britland is the 'ramrod entry pipe'