doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT, nickel plating on .22lr ammo. Help. New info.

Hello Lagopus,

Thank you for your feedback.

I must confess all my knowledge for now comes from what has been reported in the papers.

There is a thread further down called "On plated shot..." , where nickel plated lead shot
is mentioned. Is this hardening technique used on .22 bullets? In any case from what
can be seen of the state of the victims house after the fire I hardly think there is anything
recoverable concerning boxes of ammo to compare.

JC

Sorry, missed going on yesterday. One thing with lead is that it is identifiable to a batch lot. I Presume Chummie is trying to say that he was shot but not by the murder victim. Lead shot or lead .22 bullets are made from scrap lead and as such will contain various impurities in varying proportions. Each batch will be as different as fingerprints. Yes, quite a quantity will be smelted at the same time and there will be several tons of identical shot or identical bullets but they will match to the individual batch. One load of Winchester lead .22 ammo in one batch will be nothing like another batch coming out of the factory a short time later. If the bullet in the suspect matches the remaining bullets (if any have survived the fire) then there will be a good chance that they will have come from the same batch. Circumstantial evidence again but the more the better. Interesting stuff lead and in fact a drop of engine oil from the sump left at the scene is identifiable to a suspects car as good as DNA and tyre rubber can batch match and also contain certain trace elements that match to a vehicle. All very scientific but avenues of exploration. Lagopus.....

Hello Lagopus and All,

I am extremely embarrassed about this, but today, the same newspaper that had reported the bullet as being a .22 is saying that it is 7,65 fired form a Browning pistol. The trial started yesterday and this was reported in todays newspaper.

I am trying to confirm this, but if it is so, there is a higher probability of the bullet being in a state that enables microscopic analysis to match it to the barrel of the gun.

Again thank you for your feedback.

JC

Sounds as if it will be a standard jacketed round then. If that is the case then the rifling marks will be clearer. Even if they can't be matched to the exact pistol because of fire damage it should still be possible for an expert to tell what make of pistol will have been used. Each manufacturer will have slightly different barrel rifling methods; width of lands and grooves and pitch of rifling. Just like it would be possible to tell whether a .243 bullet was fired out of a Remington and Winchester or a Savage. Interesting case. Lagopus.....

Hello Lagopus,

Thank you.

Just had a contact with a lawyer of the prosecution. He confirmed that the gun in fact is a 7.62 cal Browning pistol that suffered about 900�C in the fire of the house and is in a deplorable state, unfortunately not apt for comparisons.

Your feedback is very pertinent in this case as the defence is trying to establish that another gun was used.

As soon as I have more information I shall share it. I am trying to know more about the "nickel in the wound theory".

JC

I assume that the "nickel in the wound" refers to the cupronickel alloy formerly commonly used for auto pistol bullet jackets. Is this alloy STILL used?

It seems to me that our references to bullet jackets are pretty sloppy as to alloy names--I've seen current jacketed auto pistol bullets described as both "copper jacketed" and "brass jacketed." Can't be both at the same time. And of course we still don't know when or where those crime scene bullets were manufactured....

I've seen .32 ACP/7.65 Browning ammo that had bullet jackets of steel, too, but SUSPECT it had at least some nickel content.

It seems that "burning up the evidence," a common tactic of criminal morons, may have at least muddied up this case for the defense a little. Not sure what "reasonable doubt" means in Chile, tho.

Interesting post, for sure.

Hello Mike,

Yesterday I finally heard some information directly from the defence attorney who
was being interview by the local CNN channel.
He said there were traces of copper in the wound and no nickel that should have
been there if the bullet came from the victims Browning pistol because the bullets
found in it had nickel jackets; he said "they were silver bullets" sic.
He also mentioned that the perpetrator was found by the police wounded and was
held for at least three hours before being taken to hospital.
How the traces of copper were found I do not know. I also do not know what
happened to the bullet, as it is not available to the prosecution.
We know from experience that we sometimes have assorted ammo and it may well
be that the victim had copper jacketed bullets also.
I find highly unlikely that metal detection in a wound, after several hours can be
done, but I am ignorant on the matter. Any and all comments are more than
welcome.

JC