doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rip Off

That's a pretty rarified area of Lefever collecting. I've never seen either a B or a C so I'd have to leave that one for DrBob to answer...Geo

....

A higher level of engraving and slightly better wood. This can be hard to tell on some internet photos. I was never given a photo of the watertable. On inspection the B was not well stamped and unless one looked with the proper light the B could be mistaken for an E or even a C.

What has gone unnoticed is that the gun was flawed. It did have serious pitting in the chambers and at one spot rust on the barrels and pitting on the rib.

What is the true value of this gun? This was debated among several of us at the Lefever tables. There was no uniform agreement. Some felt that the flaws against it evened out the value between a B and a C. It was not known if the barrel pitting could be repaired while maintaining the structural stability of the gun.

When it comes to widgets, it seems to go both ways. Most legitimate ads have disclaimers about typos. Then again, I can think of twice recently where airlines honored decimal misplaced prices for those who jumped on the apparent online deal before it was corrected.

This item may be regulated differently than the other examples, but I appreciate the buyer beware caution that DrBob was willing to walk through. There's probably already a behind the scenes buyer who doesn't mind much about courtesy, but if it's still to be sold, that buyer might appreciate the insight.

I must have missed at least one point. In all the scenario given, I don't recall seeing anything about a written and signed agreement to buy and sell.Though we all want it to be the old saying that my saying I will do something is my bond,it always seems in my experience that signed paper trail by all parties holds sway. Without documentation, it quickly evolves into a "he said she said". As a Realtor, I was always lead to believe that a contract is worth the paper it is wrote on. No paper, just becomes almost unenforceable.

I believe it was unenforcable. The only way it could have been pressed into culmination is if the conversations between buyer and seller had been recorded.

I once was given an oral promise that a piece of property on which I had bid, and was high bidder, would be sold to me, and was told to line up an attorney to close it. Before it could happen though, a few days later, I received another call from the seller saying that he had changed his mind and was not going to sell at all. He sold a year later to my neighbor for a larger sum, in a private sale. I was told that a verbal agreement is binding, but had to be proved by a recording. Was also told that next time I should have a recording device on my phone.

I, like others here, have bought many guns by sending funds and hoping I received the gun, and in the condition advertised. It is risky, absolutely, but I've never been burned. The greatest help we have is the threat of exposure, of a fraudulent seller, on the internet. Even these three day return policies are no better than the man making the promise.

Glad you got your money back, DrBob. As Jerry Clower's Aunt Pet used to say, "It coulda' been worse". A lot worse.

SRH

Times sure have changed a lot. A "Hand Shake" agreement between Henry Ford & Harry Ferguson in 1938/39 to build the 9N ford tractor with Ferguson hydraulic system Cost Henry Ford about 3 Million dollars as I recall "In Court" to get out of in 1947.

Paper ??? Paper??? Nowadays I think a huge percentage of the contracts are done via internet, just like we are writing here. Credit cards, Paypal, etc.

Was there a written contract?

Statute of frauds usually requires a writing.

In answer to the question above about the differences between B and C grade Lefevers, they really have to be of approximately the same age to even be able to compare them.

Take a look at the photo gallery of the Lefever Arms Collectors Association (LACA.com) and you'll note much greater differences between early and later guns of a given grade than adjoining grades of about the same age.