doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Soldering loose rib

I've got a set of barrels in now, that have a couple of pinholes in the solder along the top rib. After careful inspection, I feel that they have probably been this way since built, or for quite some time. I find that wiping ferric chloride on, rather than dipping in, is inferior as far as even results, so I'll probably run some shellac in, through the front bead hole, to seal the pinholes. This will allow me to proceed with the refinish, and not worry about getting the ferric chloride solution under the ribs. I have no qualms about this, as I firmly believe the problem lies in an original flaw concerning the soldering.
I've got another set here, that leaks only through a poor repair job in replacing the forend loop.I could probably add a little solder to this repair, and get it to quit leaking. However, the barrels ring with a dull thud. I'm guessing the void is full of rust, and will suggest to the owner that we remove the loop, and the short section of the lower rib, in order to check things more closely. I'd hate like hell to think I, knowingly, covered up a potentially dangerous condition, and I know that were it mine, I'd feel as though I were shooting a ticking time bomb each time I used it. That said, if the owner tells me that he is aware of the problem, and comfortable with it, I'll refinish as is. This will be requested in writing, and I'll save the e-mail, should that be the case.
I've got another I'm working on, that has what is probably a total of 4" of separation along the lower rib. It rings well and has no signs of previous work done in the area, but I wonder what caused that problem. It almost certainly did not leave the factory that way. It could simply be a not so good factory job that finally came loose, or there could be problems that need to be stopped now, rather than allowed to deteriorate further. Without a good look, we'll never know. The owner has wisely gone the route of having the rib relayed. Part of the process will be to clean everything up, so the cause, if any, will be removed at the same time.
Steve,
If an improper repair in replacing a forend loop was the cause of the separation, wouldn't removing the loop and taking a look be almost as pain free, monetarily? I've seen loops that just popped due to bad solder in the first place. I've also seen loops and a portion of the rib come loose due to rust underneath. If you didn't do the original repair, how would you know?
I'm with you on the common sense part. I certainly don't recommend a full relay in all cases. I also have a slight advantage, in that most of the loose ribs I see are on guns that are slated for refinish anyway, so that cost was already expected.
Jim

Jim,
my point being that not all guns are purdey's, nor do they all require that quality of repair. The gun I was thinking of was a 1889 Remington in pretty used but not abused condition. Someone had resoldered the forend lug poorly and out of position. This caused about 4" of rib to lift ahead of the lug. I could see under the rib and it looked fine. I resoldered the lug in the proper spot and relayed the short section of rib. My customer emailed me after dove season to say it is holding nicely. This gun is not worth the investment to relay and refinish the barrels completly, nor would refinished barrels match the rest of the gun. I fail to see how this is not a quality repair and one that matches the gun. Some guns require the ribs to be relayed...each is its own situation.
Steve

Steve,
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There you have it. I think you'll agree, however,that Purdey or Remington, the gun is trash if not repaired safely. With old guns, at each fork in the road, you make that decision. Do I throw away an $800 gun, or make a $400 repair? If looked at in that fashion, it's easy. From the,"I've already got $700 in it, do I spend another $400" perspective, it's more difficult. I can say though, that rather than throw it away, you give it to me, the decision becomes easy again, I'll get it fixed. I think that's the way most repairs should be veiwed.
Jim

I have resoldered 3 or 4 sets of barrels and am getting ready to do another one. To those who ask what caused the problem; my answer is that of the barrels that I have looked at, the solder joint is often very narrow to almost non existent in places. With time a bit of rust gets under it and you have a gap.
Current gun is a Holland and Holland with a section about 1 1/2" long on either side of the rib about 2/3 of the way down the barrel that has a gap in it. It did not show up until I started pouring hot water on the barrels while refinishing them. Grumble grumble etc.

cheers Doug

Guess I'm luckier than you guys. All of the ribs on my guns are sound. I asked the question so that in case I come across a gun for sale with loose ribs I might buy it and do the repairs myself. Years ago I took a 20 Ga. very minty Nitro Special to the gunsmith (Adolph) at Abercrombie's on Wabash St. in Chicago. He did a swell job without relaying ribs or even messing up the blue for $15.00. He was trained in Germany and very skilled in working with double guns --- and would have scoffed at the idea of relaying the ribs. For what it's worth, I tend to agree with SKB: each one is an individual case. That NS must have left the factory that way because it sure had not been used much. Thanks for the input. Chopper

The issue is not about a gunsmith having the skill to plug a gap without damaging finish or loosening the rib in other areas. The issue is how much rust is there inside where you cannot see it.
In my own case, my preference runs to hammer guns that are now roughly 120 years old and have had a long time to absorb moisture and rust unseen inside. The barrels are not tinned inside and there is nothing to stop rust forming once moisture and oxygen get inside.

cheers Doug

We're talking shotguns here, not automobile rocker panels. With just reasonable care I see no reason why a gun should accumulate rust between the ribs, even if there was a slight breach of integrity. Adolph once stated that he had never seen a gun with rust between the ribs. For what it's worth. Chopper

Here's my last experience with loose ribs, my first was not much better.

After being ashured by Briley that they don't do shoddy work and relaying muzzleloader ribs was a common everyday job to them....

I sent a set of side by side muzzleloader barrels to Briley with instructions to 'remove and relay' the ribs and 'rebrown' and 'remove and re-color' the breech plugs.

After recieveing them they declared their best gunsmith could not see where the rib was loose ? A Sickening feeling came over me when he told me that.


It was very easliy visible to someone that knows what to look for...heck after I cleaned it I could blow water out the other side of the rib with an air hose...and they couldn't see it.
I just about lost it.

After they were finished they told me they couldn't remove the breech plugs ?

They jacked me up on the final price and didn't complete the job as ordered.

I was smartly told I could send it back.

After recieving my gun back from them I 'know' I have wasted about $800 bucks on a pretty brown job...with a propped up soldering job.
L.F.

Chopper,
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What reasonable care can you give to something you are unaware of, and unable to access?
Perhaps Adolph had never "seen" a gun with rust between the ribs, because he was in the habit of simply patching the problem.
I have seen it, and it's scary. So much so that I'm starting to believe a good squirt of boiled linseed or shellac, down the front bead hole, might be a good dose of preventative medicine for all old SxS's. At least if there is oxidation present, it may stop or slow it.
I've always carefully inspected a set of barrels before refinishing them. This way, if there are any problems, they can be taken care of first. The usual, wall thickness, bore condition and diameter, ring them, etc. That inspection now includes submersion in a tank of clean hot water. Any bubbling and I know I've got something to deal with first. It could be as simple as a leak around the front bead, or it could show you where to run a feeler along the rib to see how big the gap. Hot water is used because it expands the air in the void, creating enough pressure to push the excess air out, rather than let water in. Many American made guns have a hole in the bottom rib, near the forend loop. These can either be tapped and have a small screw inserted to plug the hole, or a piece of #6 shot peened, temporarily, into them. The peened shot doesn't always seal the hole completely, but it slows it down enough to check the rest.
Personally,I would think this little test important to use on every old gun one brings into a collection. It requires little work or clean up, and could show you a minor problem before it turns into a big one.
Jim

So is there any place I can get a lower rib/forend lug resoldered on a single-trigger 12 ga Nitro Special in good condition without spending half what the gun is worth (about $150)?