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Joined: Jan 2002
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slate Offline OP
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I have asked my good friend Jay Cee to post some photos for me.
As to serial # none on the gun other than P.1K437.8 which is on the barrel flats. As to the configuration of the eagle I cannot make out any head even with a magnifying glass looks more like a circle of feathers. I was so enhanced by the gun that I bought it as my friend decided that he liked another offering more. I am now in the midst of tearing the gun down for a thorough cleaning. This is definitely a good quality piece. I would like to determine the maker just for the knowledge but even if I never learn the gun has appeal for me especialy being in such good condition and with so many interesting features. Some warts but not many. Thanks for all the contribution & comments. By the way I don't recognize any Nitro proof marks however on the edge of the barrels just above the barrel flats * Nitro is stamped on both.

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Here are some photos as per Slate's request. (I am just the poster not the artist )







Does not look like ABC to me.

JC(AL)


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Thanks Jay Cee, I take full responsibility for the poor photos.

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Wow. Neat damascus. Definitely not a clunker. Anyone know what kind of damascus that is? If possible I'd like a closeup photo of the damascus. I'd like to have it for my damascus type photo collection. Thanks

Last edited by Mike Harrell; 04/10/07 08:26 PM.
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Slate the 1K427 is the weight of the barrels. The rest is interesting, I think it was originally proved in Belgium in the early 1900s and later reproved in Germany. there appears to be a St Eitenne nitro proof with EC powder that is over stamped. The eagles is probably a German proof mark. really beautiful barrels and the whole guns says class.

Jim A


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slate Offline OP
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I will take a better photo of the barrels.
Have the gun disassembled now, the internals are in good shape other than some spot rust which will readily clean up. not much discernible wear. Gun handles very well, would like to put it on Rocketman's MOI machine some day. The butt has balance adjustment hole. Should be fun to shoot with LP loads as it fits me very well with quite straight stock dimensions. Wish I knew more of the gun's history - seems to have been sitting somewhere for a long time without use.

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The ELG indicates a Liege proof.

The weight marked is 1K487.8. They stopped using the decimal notation after 1923. It comes out to 3.28 lbs.

There is a nitro proof which indicates they used did a 4th proof using EC powder.

The 12 C in the diamond indicates a 12 gauge. In use from 1898 to 1924.

The crown over the R indicates a rifled bore.

Non Pour Raye indicates a smoothbore.

Confusing huh? I have seen this conflict before. It was on a gun that was meant to fire both shot and ball. This would make sense with a gun destined for the German market, where multiple use guns are highly prized.

Unless someone can offer another explaination for the crown over the W, I believe it to be the makers trade mark. While not documented, from the quality of this gun, I would guess that maker may have been Wilmart. For a much later example of Wilmart: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20wilmart%20gb.htm

Unlike some other countries, apparently the Belgians did not register their trade marks with the proof house. In the case of some better known makers you can find examples of the mark changing over time.

The X with * is the controller's mark.

If there is an eagle present, I do not see it.

Oh, by the way. Those barrels are great! What a beautiful pattern.

Hope this helps a bit.

Pete

Last edited by PeteM; 04/10/07 09:26 PM.
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Thanks Pete. The Board Members here are knowledgeable, accomodating and add to one's day. All the Best, Slate

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Pete if you check German proof marks you will see that the crown over W and the crown over R are actually German marks also the 12 in circle and the 13/1. The mark above the crown/R is the German eagle. The crowns are different than the belgian crowns. Actually I think Not Pour Raye means not for ball. I would bet this gun has an interesting history

Last edited by james-l; 04/10/07 11:06 PM.

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Originally Posted By: PeteM


If there is an eagle present, I do not see it.



Isn't that an eagle between the barrel weight and the "R" over crown?

Very impressive damascus pattern!

Rob


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