doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Advice on browning bbl's

Hello all, know this has probably been discussed before as a few Q's need answers. Unable to darken bbl's while not showing pattern. Have a set of damascus Parker bbl's of which are going through a browning process using ML browning solution. After the 320 polish bbl's were initially submerged in 12.5% etching solution for 5-7 seconds then rinsed, carded in distilled H2O. Browning solution applied 2-3 rustings then wet carded/0000 steel wool after yellow rust appeared. Then etched and process repeated. Again, etched after 2-3 coats of rustings. Bbl's are on the 14th cycle and remain with a faint brown patina and no contrast. Any advice appreciated.

I don't think the barrels were left long enough with the rusting agent on them. They should have turned to an orange rust color. This time of the year is tough to rust barrels as there is not enough humidity.
You didn't say if the barrels were in a rusting box or not, but if not you will need to either build one or use a large clear plastic bag with a bowl of water with the barrels suspended and close the bag and wait for that orange color to appear.

By now after 14 rustings you should have had a decent color.

Have you looked through this?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18MIvJwHhLh87zYiUDOQ4RkZKw7b42sUhVKz_9HMDdv4/edit

David's tutorial is here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17428644

I might also add that bbl's were hung in a damp box at approximately 46% humidity then after 1 hr. re coated w/rusting agent. Have a water filled bowl at bottom of metal cabinet w/150W bulb 3/4" above water level. Sitting on this 30"W x 24" H X 12" D metal cabinet is a wood box w/a door where the bbl's are hung. There is a 3" hole at base of wood cabinet for the air to rise through. As for carding after each etch, 2 plastic troughs not quite long enough are used to submerse more than half the length of the tubes. Carding is done using the water from one trough now being dirtied w/the etchent residue then more carding is done in the second trough filled w/water until bbl's look somewhat clean. Then wiped with a paper towel until bbl's look clean. In closing, these bbl's are being browned only, no boiling to b&w. G.

46% humidity is too low, you need at least 80% and that is for a 3-4 hour rust. At your low percentage, it will have to be at least 6-8 hours or more, maybe overnight, but be careful in not putting too much rusting agent on them or it could pit.

In not having a trough long enough could be another reason and I'm sure is the reason your barrels are not coming out. Instead of being a 5-7 second etch they are know quite a bit longer as the etchant is still working on the part that is not submerged.

If there is a Tractor Supply near you, they sell plastic food/water troughs that hand on fencing.

That is why I prefer to rust in the spring/summer, I use a outside faucet with a hose running and when I take the barrels out of the etchant, they go right under the hose, and then I card with heavy denim.

I think the etching soln might be too strong. I'd dilute it in half at least and try it that way. A 5% soln works well.

Also, find some way to get the entire set of bbls under running water while you card them.
You need to flush the etching solution off and away from the metal.
I'm guessing in the way you're doing the carding in a shallow tank you are just diluting it off of the surface and reapplying it again and again as you card.
Wiping them down afterwards is still leaving some etchant on the surface no matter how dilute at that point but it's still working at removing any buildup of pattern you've achieved.
So each time you're back to the beginning...

Humidity sounds low for whats usually quoted, but I'm slow rust bluing a set of Fox bbls now with Laurel Mtn and they rust fine in a 24hr cycle. Temp is kept at 63F,,Don't know what the humidity is but it can't be much. Outside it's in the 20's. I've been doing it that way for years. A much finer rust and actually a better looking finish I think.

Hang them in the bathroom after a shower w/the door closed if you want to accelerate the rusting. It'll do a fine job in about 2 hrs. Inexpensive rusting cabinet that doesn't take up any space. You can get several cycles a day done that way if needed.

Use the shower to wet card the damascus finish bbls too if you have no other way such as basement wash tubs or it's warm outside and you can use the hose..
A lot of this stuff takes an understanding spouse or living alone.


Just some thoughts.

What browning solution are you using? When I first looked into doing a set, I found some that were explicitly deemed unsuitable for bringing out the pattern in damascus... I ended up getting a bottle of Peter Dyson's formula from the UK.

Here's the first one I did, with some description of the process I used:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=307312&page=1
I just started polishing up the barrels off my old Wakefield - which has a true damascus - rather than twist - pattern. This time, I'll only go down to about 360 grit, and I'll use a boric acid etch, rather than the copper sulphate.
After that, I've a plain (but lovely) Watson Bros BLNE to resurrect, and what's left of the pattern (with particulaly fine and even figure) looks to be more greys than browns, so may try dunking it in boiling water during the process to get them back to those sorts of colours.

Dyson's solution is great, but due to regulations, he says he can no longer ship it to the USA.

Really? It was only 18 months ago I got mine into Australia, but it did - and could only - go via surface, not air...

I think I recall from my investigations that there may have been a few solutions - reputed to be very good - in North America, but I couldn't get them easily shipped to me...

I have had excellent results with Mark Lees solution and usually use it for all browns.I cant tell much difference using the CUSo4 etching solution.
I do not use wet carding and usually let the barrels rust for at least 6 hours. I alternate between Ooo steel wool and a carding brush. After 4 or 5 rustings. Swab and card with steel wool with a 10 percent ferric chloride soln and rust again a couple of times