doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC model 21

Is there a problem with making mo' money?

Not to me Eeb, as long as it is done in an honest and stand up fashion.

So, Tony is trying to pull the wool over your eyes by selling the 21 over under for about a sixth of the price of the side by side Model 21? If you are fooled by this deception, you are one thick gun buyer. Most of us kind of realize that the over under is a bit lesser gun. What's your problem?

I will tell you what my problem is. I bought a gun from them once. Now I wouldn't buy a box of shotgun shells from those people. Use your imagination there Eightbore, and I am a player in the game, just like you. If you want to buy a POS from CSMC be my guest. When it comes to Winchester Model 21's I will stick with the real McCoy and NOT one of their reproductions and esp an O/U so called Model 21, thank you.

Ok/Ok 20 grand is a lot of difference. The engraving on both look the same? I have a RBL sporting clays gun. It is a nice gun functions well has never let me down to date. So I have nothing bad to say about his products. I just do not see how it can cost 20 g more to build a SxS.

What happened Buzz??

CNC machines lower costs, eliminate the need to maintain large inventories, minimise hand finishing. Do these benefits get passed o to the final consumer?

The former production manager of Purdey posed this rhetorical question in an article in Shooting Sportsman and concluded that this is a matter for the marketing department. Presumably this means no, the benefits are not passed on.

Years ago the Gun Digest carried a article titled Prefecting the Boxlock. The ideas mentioned in the article are embodied in the RBL. YEt the RBL is marketed as a result of "innovative thinking" by the CSMC folks. Innovative? Twenty years later?

Straight from CSMC web site referring to the Model 21 O/U: "This is the over and under version of our currently available Model 21 Side by Side. We build this gun using ALL of the SAME machining, tooling, techniques, finishes and the original process.". Now, are they saying their original 21 is just a Rizzini because that's what their O/U is? Or is this all a marketing ploy and just a bunch of BS? If it's all the same then, and they are really using the same techniques and tooling, then why do the O/U not have chopper/demibloc barrel construction like a SxS? Do you understand this Eightbore or are you the 'thick' gun buyer?? They are full of it and that's all there is to it.

I think we all understand the hype and make judgements by examining the gun, not the hype. We also know that the gun is similar to the Rizzini that CSMC used to market. No mystery there. To answer your question, yes, I do understand chopper lumps and realize that the Model 21 over under and the Inverness are made using a different system, and I still bought an Inverness. Of course, my SO Beretta is built on the same system.

After a few turns of discussion, everyone on this board (and some others) understands the difference between what they say and what they do in making this O/U. They have nothing to gain here with the misleading description, so why do it? Clearly they're promoting to a broader market, trying to draw in buyers who'll think they're getting a gun made like the M-21.

I had a terrible experience with them quite a few years ago. They mangled making my 16 ga. 21 into a custom spec gun, had to go to Andy's (before he crashed and burned) to correct problems they created and would not fix. When the RBL 16 came out I took a chance and came away satisfied -- the shop they sent it too for stock bending before delivery messed up the finish and pad, but they made it right.

This misleading O/U promotion copy goes beyond puffery, to their discredit.

Jay