doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hunting with Old Guns--Pinfire

Is anyone hunting with pinfires this fall ? I am having a ball using a Richard Jeffery with a Dougall Lockfast Patent. The gun was actioned by J.Wilkes.

Any photos of the old gal blowing smoke? I know this has been a real learning project. Would you share the story of trials and tribulations relearning the past?

Joe, I worked on the project of developing shells for the 10 bore for several months. Life would have been easier if it had been a 12 or 16 ga or any gauge where the modern shells are one piece including the base [ala Winchester AA type]. These can be converted by grinding off the brass rims to fit the pinfire rim recess. Unfortunately no such 10 ga. casings were to be found. With the help of you and others who generously told me of their experiences, I was able to develop a custom brass hull [Rocky Mt. Cartridge] and then modify it to pinfire. The story is a bit long to write here, but finally I have reliable ammo.

There's a gap in my battery for a nice example of a pinfire; and then getting it up and running and taking some game with it is on my "to do" list...

where does one obtain the primers for reloading?

If you do not care to fabricate your own cases
You can start here

http://hlebooks.com/pinfire/cal16-01.htm

You have my admiration for seeking a challenge and winning.

My friends gawk at my affectations with RMC full length brass, but I hold no candle to you and a pinfire.

You have me in awe

No. 10 or 11 percussion caps will work in pinfire shells.

Skeettx, I inquired at the site you reference, but they only had kits for 16 ga.

Yes, only 12 and 16
but maybe some of the other have these gauges
Well done, well done
Mike

Skeettx, you are correct, they have 12 ga. kits, too. They were not interested in coming up with a 10 ga. kit, though.

By the way, one can find quite a few paper pinfire cases if one looks hard, but it appears to me that a shot or two and they are used up, being 140 or so years old.

Daryl, I have an English pin fire
Loading tool if u need it

Daryl,

Fantastic piece. I was looking at one like that on the auctions a year or so ago but was conned about the 10 gauge pin fire ammo. Glad you figured it out. It looks like a great load of fun in the field.

kcordell, it is fun. The 10 bore weighs 7#5oz. so it's easy to carry.

Daryl,

What a wonderful thing you have done!!! You have resurrected this old gun and it has a new lease on life. A 10 gauge at that. You just may become a trend setter. We may all have a "Hallquist" in our future.

Pete

Pete, thanks. In my experience, Joe Wood's advice to "clean up" with Windex made the shooting of this gun so much easier. I recommend it for black powder after the day is done.

Daryl: The Beast engraved between the hammers appears 'ferocious'. Interesting! Is it a Gargoyle? Pretty neat old gun. Pheasants fold up under her?

A 'ball iz good...but have ye danced a jig over ene'thin dead

buzz, yes it looks like a gargoyle. The gun did just fine on pheasants. Shot 1 1/8 oz of #6 .

As I recall, Jim Carmichael constantly used a 10ga for sporting clays and the like. He attributed his success to the gauge.

I am sure it will bring down anything you point it at.

Pete

The view from the top of that is fantastic. I've never seen a grotesque mask on a breechloader before - and the engraving on the short rib, the hammers, and those "fireballs" above the pin holes - just gorgeous.

I can attest to the fact that Daryl's handmade shells knock down Montana pheasants. Indeed, he is as fine of a cook as a shell maker.

Thanks Dr. Bob. I think we had fun and got full, even though we had anxiety about running out of wine.

bsteele, I had never thought of the "fireballs" , as you put it, around the firing pin holes, but surely that is what they are showing. Then maybe the gargoyle is old Lucifer himself.

I did put up another picture on the first post showing the left lock in good detail. The period seems to have been the time of the highest development in skill and art in gunmaking.

Although I don't have a picture during the hunt, here's a scan of some photos firing off the gun.

Pinfire shotguns are in a sort of limbo here in Britland at the moment if you do not use the gun at all its classed as using obsolete ammunition so there is no requirement to have a licence to possess sell or display, but if you do bring the gun into use you are required then to have it added as a working gun on your shot gun licence typical Brit laws. In view of the legal requirements the gun is far more valuable and saleable if it is kept just as a curio.
The one in my collection is Samuel Ebrall 12 bore Birmingham high end trade manufacture with locks built by Brazier though the hammers to me seem very top heavy in looks though the gun has one redeeming feature a very extended to strap.
It spent all of its working life on the marshes wildfowling the barrels are Damascus but have the remnants of �Russet Browning� this type of browning was very popular on the Brit north west coast with wildfowlers thick rust saturated with a mixture of tallow and goose fat to keep the rust at bay. The barrels are still in proof with very little pitting so it seems to have been well looked after even to the point of having a repair to the comb after some damage.

Damascus, thanks for the pictures and the "state" of the pinfire in Britain. Too bad we just can't enjoy these things everywhere for what they are. Wonderful works of art were produced with the pinfire design in England, Belgium, firstly France, other parts of the Continent, I am sure. There were even two or three pinfires produced in the U.S. but maybe not the highly finished guns that could be made overseas.

Your Ebrall is fun and part of the story. The accessories that accompanied the pinfires were fun, too. Cartridge cases, loaders, reloading tools, etc.

Do you ever see any vintage all brass pinfire shotgun shells ? I have only seen paper shells with brass heads.

Hi Daryl

To sum things up regarding pin fire in the last thirty years I have only seen two vintage pin fire cartridges both Brass and paper I have never seen any all brass versions, this is a pointer to how low in popularity pin fire truly was here in Britland.
Though I will say �I wish I did know then what I know now� because I purchased the gun at a Farm sale in the late 1960�s included in the lot where two boxes of Rosson pin fire cartridges one of the boxes I sold and the other I tried shooting pigeon with. The impetuousness of youth is my excuse looking back the value of that vintage box of cartridges would probably purchase a couple of thousand or even more today, they do say youth is wasted on the young.
Also included with the gun was a box containing some hand pin fire reloading tools and a very nice Ebony cleaning rod, I will have a look through the vast number of boxes stored in my workshop to see if I can find them and post some pictures.

Damascus, I, too, wasted some things with selling too soon. Among them about 250 vintage British gun catalogs, sold long before I had a British gun.

This gun came cased with trimmer, turnscrews, powder and shot measures, and a Geo. Jeffries patent reloader. Also had a tool for removing the forend pin [I had never seen one before]. Also included were about 40 primed, unloaded, paper/brass shells.

I'd love to see the accessories you can find.

A pinfire gun I saw (but didn't purchase) several years ago had two shells stored in the butt that had built in primer nipples so the gun could be converted to a percussion muzzle loader.
Steve

Steve, that would have been cool. Do you remember what the country of origin was ?

Daryl

Some photos of the reloading tools as well as the two piece cleaning rod, though there are a few items I could not find, there should be a an Ebony stand with a brass insert for the loading tube to sit in. Also there is a photo of the pin pliers with two V grooves in one of the jaws at right angles to each other highlighted, the grooves in the pliers make handling the cartridge pins far easier.







From left to right :- Turks Head bore brush. Leather washer bore polisher. Pin Pliers. Hand cartridge turn over closure tool. Cartridge sizer. Striker removal key. Loading tube and wad ram. Shot measure and powder measure. Wad punch.

Many thanks, Damascus. I had never seen the pliers or a sizer like you show. The detail of all these items is so interesting.

I don't remember the country of origin. However, I believe I saw the gun at Collectors Firearms in Houston, though I doubt that they still have it.
Steve