doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SKB vs. Webley&Scott

This could be interesting dis-cussin. As in I'm not dissing the Scott and please, no cussin!

Through the years I have heard that back in the 1950's SKB ordered up two Scott guns, a 20 and a 12ga. They then proceded to ignore any patents and used these as the basis for their own SXS. I think the SKB Royal, Royal light Ithaca/SKB etc. do bear a close resemblence in form, to the W&S 700. My questions are is this true and how close?

The answers would need to include some measurements from members that own these guns plus info from someone familiar with the inner workings of both. I have a 20 Ga SKB. I don't have a twelve or either guage W&S.

Chief

Actually it was in the 60's and yes the SKB does seem to be a slightly modified version of the Webley 700 .Differences in the ejector trippers and the addition of the single trigger .Also I recall it is stock bolted [could be wrong ] so in affect it is a very different gun , so no parts will be common to both .
From those that I have seen the SKB appears to be a machine made gun not hand finished as the 700 but as to which is a better gun I leave to others to debate .

gunman,

Thanks for your answers. You are correct,the SKB does use a drawbolt. Another large difference would be the monobloc barrels. They do share the same hinge pin arrangement. The changes most likely reduced time and expense to manufacture. I once had a SKB Royal light 12 that is mostly the same as the Ithaca/SKB 280. It had double triggers, (and I regret moving it on).

As to fit and finish the W&S would win with me. In a practical sense I would have to give an edge to the SKB. Chromed bores, tougher exterior finish and no ammo concerns.

Many will claim that the W&S will be lighter and/or better balanced. That may be true. there are many variables. My Ithaca/SKB 100 20 weighs just less than 6#. It appears that a 20ga W&S 720 would be similar based on the guns I see for sale.

I am interested in knowing how the dimensions compare, especially the 12 GA.

Chief

Chief: I have read that for sheer numbers, the Anson & Deeley boxlock design is the single most-copied human invention on the face of this planet. That SKB would use one as a basis for their SxS makes perfect sense. As far as patents go, 1875 was a long time ago now and any protections that might have existed have long-since expired. Comparing a handmade gun to a machine-made gun is akin to beating a dead horse anymore. Comparing their utility and dollar-cost value might bear further consideration.

Lloyd3,

To some degree I agree, hence my practical comment. I am not trying to compare them as in this one is better etc. My questions go more toward how closely SKB copied the Scott. The reason I ask is this. I have owned a few Ithaca/SKB and an early SKB. All have been in my opinion relatively light and lively for wont of a better expression.

I'm no patent lawyer, that said I don't think you can directly copy another item without license? In other words if you tooled up and built a Chevy copy you'd be in trouble even though cars have been around since 1890 something. I don't know.

I'm not sure I would consider a W&S 700 series to be all that hand made. At least not in the same sense that an earlier gun would be. It is my understanding that the last Scott guns that were largely hand made would be W&C Scott or W. Scott and son?

Chief

As long as you didn't Put "Chevrolet" on your 1890 clone you would be legal. The patent on the car has expired but GM has "Chevrolet" copyrighted.

You could copy everything on the Webley down to one ten thousandths of an inch and not get in any trouble. Except of course the "Webley and Scott" engraved on the sides and barrel.

Thanks Mike, that helps. What if you tried to copy a currently produced item. Same deal?

The Japanese did this a lot back then. I had a Kawasaki 650 once that was hard to distinguish from a Triumph Bonneville, except the electrics worked!

Chief

I would very seriously doubt this as stated.
I would agree it is the most copied Firearm of any type.

I am a mechanical contractor so you are getting the legal opinions of a plumber but I think in the US all patents expire after twenty years. If I am right you could manufacture an exact copy of the 1992 Browning Citori without violating patent law - again excepting the copyrighted words "Browning" and "Citori".

When the light airplane business was almost sued out of business some rich guys proposed going into the business of manufacturing exact copies of the Cessna 172 (182?). The patent(s) had long expired.

2-piper: That's a quote from Diggory Haydoke's book on boxlocks.