doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Are we going this route?

I just picked up the September issue of Shooting Gazette at the local B&N.
In a column a guy asks a question concerning an upcoming Hammer Gun event for their group. In it the guy states that a friend has a very old hammer gun that is an antique and "NOT ON HIS SHOTGUN CERTIFICATE" and he wants to shoot the gun at this event. The advise that was given blew me away. Seems the answer was that if the guy shoots the old hammer gun it is no longer consider as a "Antique and Curiosity" and the guy would be serious trouble and face a criminal offence and could loose his certificate. The guy answering goes on to tell him his friend should notify the police and have it added to his certificate. Now the gun here in question must be very old and it is Black Powder proofed. The other guys shooting in the event has their guns all registered on their Shotgun Certificate.
I knew GB had some strict gun laws but to this extent where a guy can't even enjoy shooting his old hammer gun.

The law in this respect in he UK is quite simple and needs to be explained. Here goes:

Section 58 of the Firearms Act 1967 allows for certain types or calibre of gun to be held as curiosities and/or for display only. For this you need NO LICENCE AT ALL. So, you can have an 8-bore hammer shotgun, or a 12-bore pinfire, or a .450 BPR double rifle without any licence requirement.

If you want to shoot shotguns, you need a shotgun licence and the guns need to be on that licence. So, if you want to take that 8-bore hammer gun off the wall and shoot ducks with it (which we can do in the UK), you just need to put it on your shotgun licence.

That's it - a licence is needed if you want to shoot it - no licence if you just want to look at it.

If you revisit this Dig, just curious. Do these guns still need to be in proof along with the registration that goes with it. Does the UK still keep track of them and oversee the transfer of them. Thanks.

It is sobering to think how it was not so long ago. I grew up in North London, and before 1968 the only thing you needed to own a shotgun with a barrel over 18 inches long, was proof you were over 17.

In 1968 we got the first restriction, the shotgun certificate, issued with no need to prove anything other than possession. It was the first "get to to know you" phase.

Then started the "need to have" trip, mandatory enrolment in target clubs, mandatory proof of a hunting land permission, etc.

It is obvious that the conditions favor those with enough income to have a permission, and it excludes the less wealthy who can only shoot occasionally. There is no public land hunting in the UK, so the permission costs money.

It is also interesting that crime has increased despite the legislation.

The UK has used its influence in the EU to push for similar European wide legislation since the early 90s. Something easy to do in a situation were no one has any constituationally guaranteed rights. The person in charge of Europarliament firearms matters is an English lady.

So beware! It can happen anywhere.

Shotgunlover posted

In North Birmingham we had to buy a 10 bob gun license from the Post Office. Was this an early example of the North / South divide?

I recall that there was an interregnum when absolutely no system was in force; the old ten bob licence had been dropped and the new regulations hadn't been codified or enforced. Lasted about 10 months from memory.

Eug

UK proof laws are a mine field but in simple terms , a gun dose not have to be in proof to be owned or used . It is an offence to offer or expose for a sale a gun that is either unproofed or out of proof .
There is a proviso in the UK firearms laws that allow a holder of a shotgun certificate to " borrow" a gun from the holder of another certificate for a period of 72 hours without informing the authorities and having the gun entered on to his certificate .
All gun transfers are/must reported to the police and there is or will be a central recording system that will be probably be EU wide as an EU directive has decided that all firearms records must be computerised .

The issue of permission and land etc is not pertinent to shotguns. Everyone in the UK has a RIGHT to own shotguns and the police can only refuse a licence on that grounds that the public would be in danger if a certain person has a shotgun (in practice, this means if you have done 3 years in jail).

Eugene, the gun license was for moving the gun outside your house.

Smallbore, in 1973 I had my shotgun certificate revoked, ie not renewed, because I was not a member of a club, and had no written permission to shoot over any ground. We used to go rabbiting at a farm near Bedford, and pigeon shooting over some corn (rye) fields in Kent, but neither farmer would put his OK in writing.

My three guns were bought by a police sergeant serving at Hornsey, at an imposed price, since I could not move them out of the house for sale, and they warned the shop not to send anyone to pick them up. Holding on to them would have put me in violation of the 1968 firearms act. We owned our house, and I was a student at the Un. of London at the time. Maybe things have changed since then.

That experience moved me out of the UK, FAST!

I am to this day mystified by how I was not a public menace all the years I owned the guns without a license but became one three years after getting a license. Let the Americans here be warned.

The police were wrong, the law does not allow for that. BASC is excellent at keeping them on the level now - individual forces try to impose their own interpretations but the law is clear and will be upheld in your favour if you challenge the police on these issues.