doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CA Lead Bullet Ban

There is no scientific data supporting the claim that spent lead at shooting ranges has any effect whatsoever on the environment such as "seeping into groundwater" as is claimed by some groups who have no idea what they're talking about. (Perpetuate the lie and it will eventually be taken as 'truth')
The shooting club I belong to has very active trap and skeet ranges as well as pistol and a twenty-position rifle range. At our expense we hired a non-biased firm to do soil studies on the trap range where literally billions of small 7 1/2 and 8 shot has been covering the ground down-range for many decades. The results of their tests were that lead contamination of any kind was found no deeper than 8 inches with 10 inches being the extreme and that there has been no lead contamination whatsoever to the ground water beneath the ranges.

The lead danger to humans was raised several years back. CDC did a study in North Dakota, where the issue was raised by an individual with connections to the Peregrine Fund. Turned out that those who participated in the study and said they ate game shot with lead did have higher levels of lead in their blood than those who did not. HOWEVER . . . the AVERAGE lead level of EVERYONE in the study--with a very high proportion (something like 80%) stating that they ate game shot with lead--was lower than the national blood lead level. Much ado about not much, unless you eat one heck of a lot of game shot with lead, or maybe consciously swallow lead shot (which is pretty easily removed).

As far as wildlife goes, the waterfowl problem (and the eagle problem) have been solved since we went to nontox for ducks. Bald eagles have made a remarkable recovery, even though raptor rehabilitators still find the occasional eagle that's suffering from lead poisoning--mostly, it would appear, from wounded and unrecovered deer. (You see a roadkill deer here in Wisconsin, you're more likely to see eagles on it than either vultures or crows.) And there's no proof, with the exception of doves on very heavily hunted areas, that the ingestion of lead shot poses a problem for upland game. The biologists theorize that some upland birds do ingest lead pellets, from which they get sick and die. But they haven't had much luck finding the evidence to support that theory.

Yet another issue of particular interest to this group is that those promoting a lead ban aren't telling the truth about steel and shotguns. Many of us hunt with guns in which we can't, or shouldn't, shoot steel. Which means that if lead were banned, we'd either have to hang up our vintage guns or else switch to extremely expensive nontox alternatives to steel. And some of the guns in question aren't really "vintage". For example, Browning recommends no steel in any of its Belgian-made guns. Not in Superposeds, A-5's, Double Autos, etc. Hundreds of thousands of which were produced after WWII.

I agree that the hazards to health, human and otherwise, of target shooting with lead shot and bullets are minimal to nonexistent. What I'm saying is that the antis, antihunting and antigun, have added two more strings to their fiddle: "public health" and "wildlife environmental protection," and they will play those for all they can. In CA right now, that's a lot.

Resistance continues (see www.calguns.net) but it seems the courts are the most likely source of relief right now. Some of the provisions of the laws against sale and transfer of semi-automatic arms are pretty clearly unconstitutional on grounds other than the 2nd Amendment.

Maybe we should fight back by demanding they shut down all the windmills the same "Greens" cite as alternative to oil/coal fired generators.They kill more raptors and scanvengers than die from eating lead shot.If their interest really is in saving the birds, they will agree, if they resist, it shows they are only against guns.
Mike

I was hunting this weekend with a guy who works for the U.S. Forest Service. As we were driving through the wind farm in the Banning Pass (hideously ugly), he told me that some new turbines are being equipped with some sort of radar that senses the approach of big birds and stops the turbine before the bird hits it. I don't know how long it takes to stop those blades, but I was planning to do a bit of research on that topic. Anybody know the details?

Sounds plausible Replacement. Practicality is another story. I have seen some enormously large steel mill reversing roughing mill motors and their large spindle shafts and rolls come to a stop in a few seconds using dynamic or regenerative braking. I'm talking about over 100 tons of shaft, back-up and work-roll, and armature or rotor that is turning much faster than any wind turbine. However, applying that kind of stopping and starting torque to the blades and turbines every time a bird passes would eventually cause components to fail prematurely, or require additional expense and engineering to make them stronger. So I question whether the operators of these systems would incur the additional cost, or just cheat and disable the radar. I also note this is for large birds. Are the animal lovers going to accept the continued slaughter of the smaller species?

However, I do like Mike's idea of testing the system by demanding the total ban of bird killing wind turbines to see if it's all about gun control... even though we already know it is.

Well, I feel for those of you in CA whose legislators are trying to make shooting your fine doubles uneconomical.

If the costs of shooting becomes prohibitive and you wish to sell, particularly British guns, PM me.

While I am no longer obsessed with buying, I still have a hard time walking away from a drop dead deal.

I've had more dental problems from steel than I ever had any kind of health problems from lead. Yeah you can still spit it out but you've broke the filling by then!...Geo

Keep one thing in mind here:
The anti's will use any sort of flimsy nonsensical argument to make shooting more difficult or more expensive. That's why we have to oppose them on all fronts as was just done in Colorado.
Jim

True story...Way back, a granny in coonass Louisiana had her appendix removed. It was inflamed by 1/4 oz. various size lead shot. Now, considering she took out all she could before cooking, spit out all she could while eating, and passed all she could after eating, JUST HOW MUCH GAME had granny probably eaten to collect enough to inflame her appendix? But granny didn't start a lawsuit against shot makers. BTW, I am from coonass East Texas, little place called "resume speed" at least that's what the sign said... Steve