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Joined: Jan 2002
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Originally Posted By: 2-piper
I recall an article in a Gun Digest years ago by Roger Barlow titled, if my memory is anywhere close to correct, Square Shot & little Flying Saucers. He reported on making both homemade cube & disc shot. He did this for the cube shot by pouring a lead sheet & then cutting it into cubes & for the disc shot by placing regular shot between steel plates & pressing them into discs. As best I recall his results proved to be acceptable for a short range spreader load but would be considerable work if more than a very few shells were needed of this type.


Orvis used to sell the flattened, disc shot loads. Really opens up the pattern--but it pretty much ceases to exist beyond about 20 yards. Cubic shot, far as I know, is off the market.

Earlier on, I mentioned modifying the Polywad spreader discs by cutting some half circles around the edge. Jay Menefee uses a similar method, but he cuts holes in the discs. I have never done side by side tests of Mike's method of shot on top of the insert vs modifying the insert, but when I worked with modified inserts, it solved the weak center problem. Easy enough to modify a bunch of inserts while watching TV; saves one reloading step. I also tried one size smaller insert to see what would happen (20ga in 16ga reloads). Thought that might be the easy way. Some improvement of center weakness vs unmodified inserts, but not as good as the modified inserts. I never tried going 2 gauges smaller (20ga insert in 12ga reloads), but that might also have possibilities.

At any rate, spreaders are just the thing if you have a tightly choked gun and don't want to have the chokes opened.

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I use the Poly-Wad spreader insert for years now in my tightly choked GHE Parker 16gauge. This is my go to sporting clays gun. I use the 20 gauge insert in my 16 gauge reloads. I have done a lot of testing with this load and one thing I found to be very true is that if you load these spreaders too hot they will blow the patterns. I keep my 16 gauge loads at about 8400 psi with an ounce of 8's and they are wonderful. And you would not believe how far out these spreaders will crush targets.

Last edited by Dave Suponski; 08/26/13 08:31 PM.
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Dave, does the 20 gauge insert fit down into the 16 cup?


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Joe, I just drop in through my wad guide and seat it with my press. With an ounce of shot it sits right at the top of the wad.

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Mike,

Your press must not be progressive.(?) I loaded some with my 9000g but couldn't figure out how to use the wad guide and punch to seat the insert. When the handle comes up the shell holder rotates that shell out from under the wad punch. I think I will be better off using my old Texan, so that I can do as you said.

Think I will try punching the holes in the inserts and compare the two loads on the pattern plate. If the modified insert works just as well it will be much faster loading, not having to top off the load with the shot on top.

All my best, Stan


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Will be interested in the results, Stan.

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Spreader Loading Redux....

I load my spreaders on my MEC 9000G in progressive mode.

I seat the wad and drop 7/8 ounce of shot. I raise the handle 1/2 way, enough for the drop tube to clear, but not enough to release the shell carrier and index the shell.



Holding the handle 1/2 way up, I place the PW disc in the wad guide...




Then I seat the disc with very light pressure, again not enough to actuate the bar.




On the full upstroke the shell with disc moves to the crimp start station and a new hull arrives with powder....




Using a 1/8 ounce shot dipper made from a cut down .38 case soldered to a wire handle, I add 1/8 ounce on top of the disc and continue....



As I seat the wad and drop 7/8 ounce in the new shell with a full downstroke, the previous shell will be crimp-started...



I raise the handle halfway and pause, put a disc in place and continue.



As I said, once I hit my rhythm, I can load a box in 4 minutes; That's a flat in less than one hour. When I was shooting 20 tournaments/year, a flat lasted about 2 years.

To the group at large:

When you modify the discs, what size holes will you use? What size shot will pass through? How many shot will pass thru? Will there be bridging? These shot that pass thru, where will they end up in the pattern? Will you space the holes evenly, so that balance is maintained? How many patterns will you have to analyze before you will know?

You can sort these things out for yourself, or just buy some that are precisely mass-produced. Discs with 3 holes in them have been available from Polywad for more than 20 years.
Seems the time spent punching holes in front of the TV would be better spent in the kitchen sorting the fly poop from the pepper.

When you try the layering technique, consider this:

With 100% of the shot beneath the Spred-R disc I get the widest spread patterns of a dozen different approaches. But there is a statistically significant occurrence of large voids in those patterns, even apart from the typically weak centers.

The shot I put on top of the disc, let's say 50 pellets, are oblivious to the disc. That means they see the full effect of the choke. If it's a tight choke to begin with, it isn't hard to imagine that the majority of those 50 pellets will be distributed about the center of the pattern. And it isn't hard for me to imagine that a sufficiently geeky person could adjust the layers to tune pattern width and density for a specific application.

BTW, I didn't invent the layering technique. I merely tested it and shared it extensively over the last 5 years.


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Mike, great series of photo instruction. In your opinion does the insert result in a significant pressure increase?


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Originally Posted By: Joe Wood
Mike, great series of photo instruction. In your opinion does the insert result in a significant pressure increase?


I have no pressure data but I'm convinced enough that it's a non-issue that I've never bothered to have Tom Armbrust test any. The conventional wisdom is that the Spred-R disc displaces ~ 1/8 ounce of shot but weighs considerably less. Say you start with a given 1 ounce load and substitute 1/8 ounce for a disc. Given a reduced payload with all else being equal the pressure would drop, if anything. The only other mechanism for a pressure increase would be if the disc created an obstruction. But for that to happen it would have to be somewhere down the bore some distance ahead of the advancing shot column and I can't see that happening.


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Mike,

Thank you so much for the pic tutorial. It explains a lot!!

SRH

Your wad guide looks "melted", or something, rolled over, on the right front edge. Was it made that way, or is it something you did to make it easier to put wads under the punch ?

SRH

Last edited by Stan; 08/27/13 06:00 PM.

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