Mike, yes that kinda was my ace in the hole if I didn't find something that was specifically made for this Dumonthier. You see I have a Ruger made by Bowen Classic Arms that is a Paradox Revolver 45 cal. and 44 cal/44 shot shell with 3/4's of the barrel being smooth bore and the last 1/3 with rifling and it also uses the 444 cases cut down to the length of the cylinder. Very handy little 6 shooter and they did a class A job although when I talk to Bowen he didn't seem as excited about them as I was and I have to admit they may not have went over good enough to do all the testing and work it seems they did to get it right. Anyway I'm rambling and earlier today I had a response from here that they did make a specific cartridge marked with a head stamp of 12mm Canne for the French cartridge and 12mm W.S (walking stick) for the euro cartridge. That was very helpful as I didn't know that something like that cartridge existed. So if I can't get some of those I will be making some from the 444 cases into what I need. I really appreciate the help and info. Thank You very much!!