doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Different lock styles & qualities.

Thank you very much indeed, Dig. A wonderful description and most valuable learning, for me also.

I've often thought that CAD/CAM software could be used to build an almost three dimensional picture of the lock and it's inter-relation with the rest of the mechanism of the gun. With colour coding it would be easier to understand than the usual two-dimensional diagrams and photos we are used to. I presume it would then be an easy step to run it through video, showing all the works in action as it is loaded, closed, fired, opened and ejected.

Anyone ever seen such a video?

Tim

A big thank you for that extraordinary series of photos. Some like the Edward Lang and the Smith trigger plate lock are eye openers.

trw999- while designing a SXS I used CAD and made articulated drawings to check on angular fit and possible conflicting arcs in moving parts. A video can be made of these movements but so far I have not seen one.

As a simplicity nut I was fascinated by the Edward Lang use of the same spring to power the tumbler and the sear. It has an uncanny resemblance to the L.C. Smith lock. It must be the only sidelock with as few parts as an Anson-Deeley.

The true champion for me though is the Smith trigger plate lock. So simple, so elegant and so obviouisly exploitable as proven by the many "detachables" over the years. And yet so underexploited when you think what it could do. Gough Thomas was right about the mental inertia of gunmakers.

If anything was missing it is locks based on William Baker patents. Baker was a simplification genius and favored coil springs, as do I after some mishaps with V springs.

Those are some great pictures, for sure.
Dig,or anyone, on the facebook link picture #3, Woodward bar lock # 4209, there a little raised square filed on the internal side of the upper arm of the mainspring near to the bend.
I always imagined that the main spring anchor pin in the bar of the action was filed from a nub left on the spring & filed to make the pin?..or did they drill a wee hole through the spring for a seperate pin & this is a kind of bolster to add more strength?
The little square bit is right around the spot were the pin would be, thats what made me think of the latter idea...though wouldn't that weaken the spring?
thanks
franc

Different small tweaks employed by different makers on slightly different locks. Woodward went some extra lengths in many unseen places. A real indicator of quality is often what the shooter never sees and will never know.

The previous discussion regarding quality, parts, inletting etc fell back to the 'well, it doesn't shoot any better' and 'what's the point?' and completely misses the point. Mass market factory produced guns were not as well made as bespoke bench-made one-off creations. They could not be.

I have limited my examples here to English guns in order not to upset anyone by pointing to qualitative differences with American examples because it always descends into nonsense when that happens. Anyway, I can make the point without and I think it is an interesting one for enthusiasts to ponder.

Refinement and the quest to make every action performed by the lock as close to perfect as could be, the quest to make each part as perfectly proportioned and perfectly fitted as could be are the true marks of quality.

Of course, some designs were aimed at making mass market, cost effective locks for lower priced guns (like the Baker mentioned by Shotgunlover).

These are some of the reasons that guns like the Woodward are far superior as examples of what a skilled gunmaker can do than are, for example, the Edward Lang, or the James Lang (which is still very high quality - the JL a good deal better than the EL).

Each lock illustrated shows small details which attest to the degree of care and perfection required. Some are better than others, while all are clever and all work very well and have survived for well over a century.

The refinement, the artistry, the perfection of interplay between all these unseen parts are part of the magic within a great gun.

And you left out the Europeans too Dig, but regarding lock technology I do wonder who lifted what technology from whom and if there were innovations that the Brits implemented that were not home grown.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Fascinating stuff, it's good to see the bare bones of those lovely old locks.

Oh, you mean the argument that my Pinto gets me from point A to point B just as well as your vintage 1932 Rolls. So what's so special about your Rolls.

What's so special, the value other people place on it and the price they're willing to pay to acquire one. Some people age but never mature, (also known as, elimination of the envy and jealousy and giving credit where credit is due), but the trouble is we have to put up with them on this Board.
Equating the product of a company that produced doubles for maybe all of 40 years to a gunmaker that has been building doubles for over 200 years is similar to the know-it all FNG that shows up at work the first day trying to tell everyone how to do their job.

The British certainly absorbed European technology - after all the Le Faucheaux at the Great Exhibition was displayed by a filthy foreigner. It nevertheless started the revolution into breech-loading sporting guns in the UK.

Lovely addition of the term "filthy foreigner". I'll have to pen that on the back of me hand. We shall see that term again.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dig, stop sugar coating it and tell us straight.