doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Experiences with having custom sizing dies made?

I need to have a custom F/L sizing die made up for a project that is in the completion stage. I heard from my gunsmith yesterday that he is done with the rifle except for waiting on scope bases to come in, which he will install on the rifle and send everything back to me. He was able to cut down an existing seating die that will work fine, but the sizing die he attempted to also cut down is sizing the rear area of the case near the rim too much, which we were concerned might happen because of the slope of the case.

This is essentially a .221 Fireball Ackley Improved on a .357 Maxi case (for it's rim.) Cases were formed simply by running through a .221 FB form die designed to form from .223 cases, only using the .357 Maxi case in a proper rimmed shell holder. Chamber was cut by running in a .223 Ackley Improved reamer to the proper headspace depth to create the .221 FB Improved cartridge on the rimmed Maxi case. This was put together on a nice Martini 12/15. I sent him a set of Redding .223 Ackley Improved dies which match the reamer used to cut the chamber, which he attampted to shorten in his lathe to work with the shorter cartridge. Seater works, sizer doesn't.

He says the fired cases form out nicely, but he lost a few from neck splits. The formed cases I sent him were not annealed, the others will be annealed after initial forming.

So, I need to send a few of the fired cases to a die maker and have a sizing die made. I know that a few companies say they do this, I am looking for experiences and suggestions. I know that Redding does, as do others. I would like to have it done pretty quickly, naturally, and want good work the first time.

Your experiences with similar work done and your suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks very much.

CH4D did mine.

ChiefShotguns,
Have you verified that RCBS doesn't have .221Fireball Ackley Improved on their list of special dies( or CH4D for that matter).Then you should be able to just use a .38 spec.shellholder with them.Dies from their special list should still be cheaper than custom dies.Sounds like a neat rifle,do I know the gunsmith?
Mike

CH4D is the place to go. I would send then a fired case & Ferrosafe chamber cast. If true custom nothing on the shelf it's not going to be fast. Might think about getting a die blank from CH4D and have your gunsmith run the chamber reamer used for the rifle in for a custom fit. On a single shot not so many rounds loaded over the life of the rifle not necessary to have real hard dies

Something to think about is custom chambers and dies don't always work like factory, which has some tolerance built in to make things work. Case expands on firing then springs back letting it extract. Few thousandths clearance all around. Custom you have two different guys trying to produce something that fits looking for precision rarely comes out working like you expected.

If the case is slightly smaller at the base it may expand to improve fit when fired. When re-loading neck size it only letting the chamber itself set the fit for the rest of the cartridge. Get down near the web were brass is solid very little change in dimensions on firing no spring back. Most single shots have weak extraction, compared to a bolt gun, slightly smaller base is not a bad thing. Sort of like small base Semi Auto Cartridge Dies.

Boats

Not the one here, Mike. This ones over and up in Washington State. I thought about what you are asking, Redding does not over that set. If anyone did, sure, that's the way to go. Maybe Ill get you to turn one fer me.Maybe we can get together to wring this one out.

CH4D.

CH4D made the sizing dies for my Carlos Gove Rolling Block rifle. They have also made many reloading dies for obscure British cartridges.
The owner, Dave, is very knopwledgable and will help you if you can get the correct measurements.
... Joe D

Boats,
The reason you can't make a sizing die with a finishing reamer is the chamber (consequently the reamer)has to be larger than the largest cartridge to insure chambering.A chambering reamer can be used to make the seating die, however.
Larry,
If you are willing to sacrifice an extra 22-250 die,we can shorten it enough to use it for neck sizing, and make up enough ammo to wring it out, while you are waiting for a custom die.You might decide that's all you need.You can fireform the cases after "worrying"them down small enough to fit into the chamber with most any unimproved die you have. It sounds like fun, after the rain stops.
Mike
Larry, after rereading the initial posting,something came to mind that might be the problem.Several years ago I built a 6mm wildcat like you did with the 223 improved,except using a 6x45 reamer.In shortening factory 6x45 dies,The sizing die scraped brass from the head of the cases.The fix was to chamfer and polish the die where it was shortened,I had done it initially, but not enough.Be sure to get the shortened die back, we might be able to make it work.
Mike

Just don't run the chamber reamer in the die blank all the way.

Main thing is get some cases that fit, then do everything else with a generic neck sizer. Once the case fits no need to ever Full Length size again

To your point on worrying them down. My 25 Krag working from a bag of 50 new WW 30/40 cases ended up with 40 that are good fits extract well and only need a light neck sizing after firing. Some lost getting the neck wall thickness down right, needed a fair amount of neck turning to chamber. Forming ran them through 7mm08, 260 Remington then .25/08 form trim dies all from CG4D's stock dies. When I skipped the 260 Rem step lost a few to collapsed necks

Same rifle same methods some old 30 Army head stamped brass would not chamber. Hanging up at the cases web. They had to be turned down just a bit on the lathe. No amount of sizing would reduce the brass in front of the rim.

Neck size is with one of CH4D's interchangeable bushing neck size dies using a home made insert. Turned it on the lathe drilled reamed and lapped it out to suit the chamber wall thickness and bullet.

Boats

Boats,
You sound like a "man after my own heart".You seem to do a lot of the things I do,but it seems that runnung the reamer in only part way would wind up with a too short neck.Since you have a lathe, the fix for your fired 30-40 case heads is a shopmade "ring die".Bushing neck sizing dies work well,if you have them.
Mike