doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Darne clones

A picture of a sliding breech gun with the extra two shot magazine beneath was on the cover of American Rifleman many years ago. I don't recall the maker's name but he was Belgian.

V-C had (3 years ago) several sliding breech 12ga sxs actions in the store room, left over from the old days.
They offered to build me a gun on one if I wanted.

Levi was the Belgian builder. The pictured gun gun is/was in a museum in Belgium, that Roger Barlow had toured, and I highly doubt there are more than a few in existence.

I'm not sure what kind of information the OP is looking for. Watch for short chambers or pitted bores. If a Darne doesn't fit, don't buy it, bending adjustments are difficult. The safety lever on an actual Darne R model can be flipped around to the other side. Most of the clones have a rocker style safety that the earlier Darne patent guns used, it can't be relocated, and if you can't get used to a Greener left safety, you won't like a Darne, either.
20 gauge guns are few and far between, typically. I have used both the semi pistol grip and the straight grip, and find that I much prefer the straight grip.
If you need repairs, Kirk Merrington is your guy.

Most of the complaints on Darne guns can be traced to the gun simply not fitting. "It kicks" is often poor fit, or heavy loads in a light gun, or, both. They can have heavy trigger pulls, but, Kirk has worked a few down in the past. I am not enamoured of sub 4 lb triggers on field guns anyway.Trigger correction is more likely to be successful on a V or P grade gun. They aren't especially fast to reload, but, most Frenchman (and, me) have never been on a driven shoot anyway. Larry goes on those junkets, maybe when I'm as old as he is, I'll think about it. Or, not. I can reload my R about as fast as a guy can reload a conventional ejector gun, but, I'm not going to do it all day, either.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest. If you need instructions on how to take one down (hint: no tools are used) you can PM me, or post here and someone will help you out. In the right hands (not Larry's) a 16 or light 12 gauge Darne can be a quite efficient upland gun for birds.

Best,
Ted

Ted, your point about the safety is well-taken. The main problem I have with Darnes is that I can't get used to a safety somewhere other than on the tang. Otherwise, generally liking things French (women, wine, fries, and their break-action guns), I'm naturally attracted to Darnes. I have seen some with absolutely horrendous trigger pulls, but I'm less of a fanatic on that subject than some. If the pull is crisp and if it's at least somewhat lighter than the weight of the gun, I can live with it.

Don't think I'd want to use a Darne for driven shooting, even if I were used to the safety. Pair and a loader . . . maybe. But I have visions of much Scots muttering and cursing, assuming the loader in question wasn't used to sliders.

In the Darne curiosity column, you can also put their guns where the entire breech rotated for reloading. Saw a couple of those at the UP Shoot a couple years back. Either they didn't make a lot of them or else very few made their way Stateside.

I have only handled three (they are not common at all in the UK) and only shot my own gun. The trigger pulls are not so much heavy (I suspect about 4-5 lbs), but the right trigger is reasonably crisp, the left far from crisp. I would not disagree that the fit has a large bearing on recoil, but mine fits pretty well and with 21 grammes (12 bore) the recoil feels a lot more than a similar English sidelock only 2 oz heavier. The fit on the Darne is a little harder to gauge since it seems shorter than it is due to the standing breech being set well back almost over the triggers. Hence for a 14 1/2" LOP to the front trigger, the eye is probably an inch, maybe a bit more nearer the standing breech compared to an English sidelock.

I have added some actual measurements below where SB/H is the distance from the standing breech to the heel;

Darne V21 LOP = 14 1/2 SB/H = 16 1/8 Diff = 1 5/8
William Powell LOP = 14 3/8 SB/H = 16 3/4 Diff = 2 3/8
Henry Atkin LOP = 14 1/2 SB/H = 17 Diff = 2 1/2
AyA No 1 LOP = 14 3/4 SB/H = 17 1/4 Diff = 2 1/2


All are double trigger 12 bore with 27 or 28" barrels. As shown above, an English gun is typically 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 more from Standing Breech to Heel than the LOP, whereas the Darne is only 1 5/8.

To answer your interest, Pooch, one of those who copied the sliding breech was F. Soleilhac and one of his guns is now at auction on Naturabuy website at 890 euros. It has 65 mm (2-1/2 inch) chambers. If interested, and I can't recall the gauge, you'd want someone to inspect it for sure. Many others made the sliding breech, often using Darne-supplied barrels.

After acquiring SIFARM, Verney-Carron made two grades of Francisque Darne guns that figure in their early-mid 60s catalogues. V-C was the last of the many successors of F. Darne who had died in WWI.

You'll find photos and the American Rifleman article on the Belgian-made four-shot sliding breech in Geoffroy Gournet's website listed above. Just scroll down a ways as I posted it a year or two ago.

Ted is on track about stock geometry, the safety etc. I prefer my short-chamber 10-gauge Darne R-16 over the 12-gauge Charlin and the 16-gauge Francisque Darne largely because the safety is easier to use -- and I've had it restocked to fit me...

Regards, Tim

Double-checked on the American Rifleman article and pix. It's under "Sliding Breech Magazine Fed" dated 26 May 2008 at about page 5 of the sliding breech threads.

Regards

A Soleilhac seems to crop up ever so often. I had heard they were rather utilitarian. However utilitarian and 2 1/2 inch chambers suits me just fine, particularly so in a 16 ga.

As Ted has stated. Belgian made clones are very rare. I know that Bernard-Drissen and Francois Celerier (who was associated with MAL) each produced a few. I can not recall seeing one in the museums in Belgium, but that was some time back and they have reduced their gun exhibit space... I can not find info a Levi.

Here is one Daryl posted.
http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=500&SearchTerms=belgian

Pete

All of the name-on-the-opening-lever makers could and did build higher than utilitarian grade guns. But, the beaters are what sold. So that is what we are left with.

I have seen some spectacular guns that have no name on the lever. Moonlighting at a second job has always been frowned upon in France, so if you had a job filing actions and had friends who fit stocks, and did finishing work you couldn't, you had a second income. Kinda' like Johnny Cash's car, but, for sale when it was all done, and your employer was an accomplice.
It was common at one time.

Best,
Ted