doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Case Coloring

In another thread it was mentioned doing fake case coloring by using a torch and urine. I've never heard of this. Any info would be appreciated.

I've also heard that the case colors on modern replica firearms, such as Uberti, are not actually from true case hardening. My Uberti 1873 Winchester has beautiful case colors, wonder how it's done?

Thanks, John...

John,
Forget about using a torch at all,I don't know about urine; I believe horse urine may have been used for browning barrels in the old days.Again, forget about using a torch.
Mike

John,

There are two types of case color hardening commonly used for firearms, neither are thru-hardening of the steel but topical skin case hardening........A.) Bone and charcoal case color hardening........B.) Cyanide case color hardening........

Uberti uses cyanide case color hardening as does Pedersoli, Beretta, Armi-Sport and some other Italian makers.....

Bone and Charcoal case hardening is run at a higher furnace temperature than Cyanide case hardening......as well as the obvious different sources of rich carbon......both have benefits for various applications.....

People with a torch are in the "shade tree" category, if that, with or without urine LOL, as are the faux (fake) topical kit painters, fake patina applicators and the like etc......and they look exactly like what they are, junk.......

Multiple posts have been made here over the years, covering every possible detail of these various processes.....you can look them up should you be interested in specifics......

Arrieta uses a cyanide process as well.

Thanks for the info, just curious. I kept thinking about someone putting a torch to a gun after pouring urine on it. Sounded like something a liberal would do.

John...

Obviously you have confused ed good with somebody who knows what he's doing.

Who is Ed Good ???

Case Hardening was developed many yars ago to put a hard surface (Case) on low carbon steel or iron which would not harden by the heat & quench method of higher carbon steel. Without going into a lot of detail when the steel was heated above its critical temperature & held for a period of time in a carbon atmosphere the carbon was absorbed into the surface of the steel. A quench then would harden the higher carbon surface (Case) but not the inner core which was still of a low carbon content. The technical term for this is Carburizing & hardening. It generally became known as case hardening & when done with color Color Case Hardening. The nice colors were actually a by product of the process normally occurring when Animal charcoal was used for the carbon source. Alloy steels containing more than about 20 points (.02%) carbon are not normally carburized but heat treated which does not produce color. Several makers of modern guns have developed methods of producing some color on their gun parts which are not true "Color Case Hardening" but simply a chemical color process.
Back at the point in time Ithaca was importing the Perazzis, these guns receivers were made of an alloy steel which was heat-treated & subsequently "Colored". Ithaca published in a gunsmith manual they put out their recommended procedure for "Re-Coloring" one of these. It consisted of; Heating the part "Evenly" with a "Torch" to about 200�F or until it would just start to sizzle a dab of water. A Q-Tip wasa then dipped in cold bluing solution & dabbed, sprinkled or streaked on. They then recommended a coat of clear acrylic to protect the colors. Ithaca recommended 44-40 blue, I have tried Brownell's Oxpho & could tell no difference.
Several things of note;
1st - an most important, this method should never be confused with the process of holding the tip of a torch in one spot on a part which has previously been hardened by any method, either case or through, until the part takes on a "Temper Color".
2nd - This method in no way heats the part any hotter than a boiling water bath of a rust blue & definitely not as hot as a Sale Blue bath. this process in no way damages any previously imparted heat treatment it may have received. The colors produced are very thin & if un-pleasing can simply be poilshed off.
3rd - This will "Never" produce the colors of a true Bone Charcaol Color Case Hardening. But at a cost of about $5.00 as opposed to the price of a Bone hardening job it has its place.
I personally would not care to spend $300.00-$500.00 on a gun which would be Worth about $250.00 when it was finished. Whether or not is is preferable to simply leaving it worn, rusty or shiny is purely up to the individual owner. Actually with a bit of practise one can produce a finiash which to me is about as attractive as the average Cyanide finish.

2-piper, thanks for the info. I've always wondered about the method the old timers used to produce the colors. It seems the method is almost a science. It's just an procedure I an interested in. Your post explains a lot !

Again, thanks for the info!

And who is ed good ? Just curious,,,

John...

skratch, the colors are closely related to the actual thickness of thin films of oxides and other surface compounds that will cling to the steel surface. Browning and blueing use iron oxide, red is ferrus oxide Fe2O3, and blue/black is ferric oxide Fe02 - red and black rust.

Steel can be hardened without coloring and coloring can be done without hardening. However, the bone charcoal process both hardens the surface and colors it. Case colors are very thin and do not change the hardening if worn away.

ed good was involved in some gun restorations that are/were questionable in the eyes of many on this board particurally due to torch recoloring.

DDA