doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cock-eyed load

A friend just sent me a letter addressed to his father from Bob Nichols, Editor, Arms and Ammunition Dept., Field & Stream dated Oct 1, 1940:

"As regards the 16-gauge, I think the English loaders for a long time recommended 15/16 of an ounce of shot as being about as much as the 16 could handle with "good grace." I still think the 1 1/8-ounce maximum load in the 16-gauge is a cock-eyed load- because I don't see any sense in having the 16-gauge weigh more than 6 pounds- or 6 1/4 pounds at the most- and believe me, the 1 1/8 ounce load in front of 3 drams equivalent modern smokeless powder is just too heavy in recoil for the 6-pound gun."

He added..."if you give the maximum range of the 12-gauge full choke with 1 1/4-ounce load at 50 yards, then you can call the maximum range of the...(1 1/8 oz.)...16-gauge load, same boring, at 45 yards..."

Interesting perspective from almost 67 years ago.

Greener gave the standard 16ga load in 1910 as 2 3/4drams with 1oz shot. In Burrards list of standard loads he gives for the 2½ shell a charge of 2 3/4DE with 7/8oz & for the 2 3/4" shell a 3DE with 1 to 1 1/16oz depending upon powder used. I might add that for hunting purposes where a large number of shots are not fired in quick succession I find no problem with shooting the 2 3/4DE - 1 1/8oz load from a 6-6¼ lb gun. I also never found any drastic fall off in performance. I have also fired a number of loads of this same performance from a 6¼lb 3" 20 ga with no undue discomfort. These are of course not loads I would want to use on a target course or on one of those Argentine dove shoots from a gun that light. Simply slowing the velocities down to under 1150 fps though can tame recoil considerably.
I do admit though my all time favorite load for the 16 is the 2½DE-1oz load. To me this load is just all needed for the use I put a 16 to. When more is needed I prefer going to a 12.

So what 16g guns in 1940 weighed only 6 1/4 #s? British & Spanish Game Guns? My pre-1913 LCs weigh 6# 8 oz (28" brl) and 6# 10 oz (30" brl) My 1942 M-12 weighed 6 1/2 #. Not Remington M-31s nor Parker Trojans and certainly no autoloaders of that era. Some 4 wt brl Sterlys with 26" brls come close. I can only think of the Ithaca M-37 Featherweight?

Drew, there may more 16 gauge Fox's that weigh under 6 lbs. then you may suspect. I have two that weigh closer to 5.75 lbs. then they do 6 lbs. and one has 28" tubes. I also have a Lefever DS and a field grade Flues that both weigh 6 lbs. 1 oz..

Larry

Lefever 1913 catalog stated "Regular" weights for the 16ga were from 6 to 7¼ lbs. Presumably they could be "Special Ordered" outside these limits. My ca 1908/9 one with 28" twist bbls weighs 6 3/4lb. Have a Baker Black Beauty, also 28" weighs 6½ lbs but a Darne Halifax weighs 5lb 14oz.
A "CockEyed" load is the 3" .410.

My Sempert Kreighoff sidelock 16 gauge is from about 1912-20s and weighs 5lb 9oz. One ounce loads are painful and that in 2 1/2" shells. Loads of 7/8oz are pleasant enough and quite effective on birds like grouse, desert quail, Huns.