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Forums10
Topics39,490
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639 |
How could it be that jOe’s #4 copperclads weigh 4.6 grains and a Tungsten 9 weighs 1.3 grains or 3.5 times the weight of a tungsten 9 and that both are almost dead even in penetration at 60 yards if shot at the same velocity out of the barrel? The major factor would be surface drag. Assuming a diameter of .1290” for a lead #4 compared with the #9’s diameter of .08”, the surface area of the 4 is 2.58 times that of the 9. Not only does air slowdown a moving object but so does bone and flesh. The smaller, but denser tungsten shot is less affected by drag in air and bone mass than the heavier, larger, but less dense #4 lead shot. Is one better the other? No, dead is dead, but the advantage with tungsten super shot is more pellets with denser patterns, resulting in lighter loads and smaller gauges being effective turkey guns at ranges equal to or greater than the domain of lead shot in 12 gauge guns. jOe, no question your doubles are “classy”, but we have the photo of you and the mundane caught with blood on your hands.  I offered you the use of my working-class single-shots, not to make a fashion or social statement, but to give you an opportunity at my expense to see for yourself as to whether or not our “pixie dust” is what we say it is. The offer stands. Gil-obble.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639 |
How could it be that jOe’s #4 copperclads weigh 4.6 grains and a Tungsten 9 weighs 1.3 grains or 3.5 times the weight of a tungsten 9 and that both are almost dead even in penetration at 60 yards if shot at the same velocity out of the barrel? The major factor would be surface drag. Assuming a diameter of .1290” for a lead #4 compared with the #9’s diameter of .08”, the surface area of the 4 is 2.58 times that of the 9. Not only does air slowdown a moving object but so does bone and flesh. And as Coosa pointed out, the name of the game with dropping a turkey is penetration into the central nervous system of a turkey which is most vulnerable in its head and long neck. The smaller, but denser tungsten shot is less affected by drag in air and bone mass than the heavier, larger, but less dense #4 lead shot. Is one better the other? No, dead is dead, but the advantage with tungsten super shot is more pellets with denser patterns, resulting in lighter loads and smaller gauges being effective turkey guns at ranges equal to or greater than the domain of lead shot in 12 gauge guns. jOe, no question your doubles are “classy”, but we have the photo of you and the tools of the unwashed masses caught with blood on your hands. I offered you the use of my working-class single-shots, not to make a fashion or social statement, but to give you an opportunity at my expense to see for yourself as to whether or not our “pixie dust” is what we say it is. The offer stands. Gil-obble.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
Joe, I'm gonna save that pic and use it in our battle to eliminate the fall season in AL. We almost had it eliminated, and then the henkillers managed to get 20 days put in for 5 counties. A massacre like that would not be legal in AL, but that sure doesn't stop many of them from doing it.
Shows again what a total idiot you are... There was only one hen in that picture and they were all killed legally in one day all by myself. And I can assure you none were shot over bait (or legal Alabam'e bait, chufa patches) or from the safety of an out'house blind and without the use of any da'coys. Ps..GLS none were shot out of a truck window.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
How could it be that jOe’s #4 copperclads weigh 4.6 grains and a Tungsten 9 weighs 1.3 grains or 3.5 times the weight of a tungsten 9 and that both are almost dead even in penetration at 60 yards if shot at the same velocity out of the barrel? The major factor would be surface drag. Assuming a diameter of .1290” for a lead #4 compared with the #9’s diameter of .08”, the surface area of the 4 is 2.58 times that of the 9. Not only does air slowdown a moving object but so does bone and flesh. The smaller, but denser tungsten shot is less affected by drag in air and bone mass than the heavier, larger, but less dense #4 lead shot. Is one better the other? No, dead is dead, but the advantage with tungsten super shot is more pellets with denser patterns, resulting in lighter loads and smaller gauges being effective turkey guns at ranges equal to or greater than the domain of lead shot in 12 gauge guns. jOe, no question your doubles are “classy”, but we have the photo of you and the mundane caught with blood on your hands. I offered you the use of my working-class single-shots, not to make a fashion or social statement, but to give you an opportunity at my expense to see for yourself as to whether or not our “pixie dust” is what we say it is. The offer stands. Gil-obble. It's quite evident from reading your post that TSS dust has effected your sense of reality....turkey killing is not just all about penetration. I hate you perceive me like you do I can assure you I'm no screwed up SxS purist of some sort.... Most of the time I hunt alone...I guess I'm trying to make a fashion or social statement for my dog.... I rarely post pics because of jealous internet stalkers like coosa and now you  Although my SBE is a superior killing tool I like the old SXS's...that's the only reason. I'm not a rein-actor nor am I living in a fantasy land when I hunt with them. Gill I once thought like you... I was once a "hole counter"....like you I thought one needed a gun that would but hundreds of pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards to kill a turkey. Hundreds of turkeys later I learned otherwise.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
I have the same results with my Greener, but I still am curious about the results these guys are getting with their "pixie dust"....Geo
George they only recommend using TSS in guns with throw away barrels.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 304 Likes: 134
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 304 Likes: 134 |
Joe, I'm gonna save that pic and use it in our battle to eliminate the fall season in AL. We almost had it eliminated, and then the henkillers managed to get 20 days put in for 5 counties. A massacre like that would not be legal in AL, but that sure doesn't stop many of them from doing it.
Shows again what a total idiot you are... There was only one hen in that picture and they were all killed legally in one day all by myself. And I can assure you none were shot over bait (or legal Alabam'e bait, chufa patches) or from the safety of an out'house blind and without the use of any da'coys. Ps..GLS none were shot out of a truck window. What it shows is that there are fall hunters who don't mind at all blasting as many turkeys as they can. While yours were legal, there are others who will do it when its not legal. The picture just proves what can happen to a flock of turkeys in areas where fall hunting is legal. I am thankful its not legal in the county where my farm is in AL, and we have way more turkeys than the counties I've hunted in TN that have fall seasons. Looks like the thread has drifted far from my original purpose, so I will bow out of it too, and turn it over to Joe. Good hunting to all!
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,199 Likes: 639 |
Geo, While I wouldn’t shoot any HTL or steel shot through a fine double (or any heavy load, for that matter), these loads are safe pressures for modern guns and I’ve yet to scratch a barrel or choke with them. They are loaded in thick hulls designed for htl and steel shot and each load is wrapped in a mylar sheet for further breakthrough protection. My single-shots guns, while inexpensive, are made of modern steel with chromed barrels and are no more “throw away barrels” than the barrel of my SBE unless one considers the barrel of a $1500 auto disposable. I have read and seen photos of impressive patterns of Tungsten 9’s shot through Savage 219, 220A and B 20 gauges with factory chokes. I shot a lighter load 1 5/16 oz. load of TSS 9s through my 20. 1096 fps, 11,544 psi, with 139 shot inside the 10” ring and 185 inside the 10” to 20” ring. Knowing you have the same gun, I thought you’d be interested. This will dispatch any turkey inside of ethical ranges and beyond. The below turkey photos were of a season ending bird (today) of a buddy who shoots the 13/16 oz TSS 9 load through his Mossy 500 .410. Shot at 33 yards. 11 3/4 “ beard, 1 5/8” spurs, 19 lbs. on a heavily hunted public area. This is his 18th bird with the 13/16 oz. .410 load. He used old school calls—slate turtle shell and a wingbone call I made for him. Bear in mind, this guy could call up and kill a turkey in a Kmart parking lot with a pea shooter. In cleaning the bird, he found 4 nickle-plated #2 shot. One in the thigh joint, 2 in a wing joint and one against the breast bone. [img] http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/013_zps5e91c287.jpg[img/]  
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
Joe, I'm gonna save that pic and use it in our battle to eliminate the fall season in AL. We almost had it eliminated, and then the henkillers managed to get 20 days put in for 5 counties. A massacre like that would not be legal in AL, but that sure doesn't stop many of them from doing it.
Shows again what a total idiot you are... There was only one hen in that picture and they were all killed legally in one day all by myself. And I can assure you none were shot over bait (or legal Alabam'e bait, chufa patches) or from the safety of an out'house blind and without the use of any da'coys. Ps..GLS none were shot out of a truck window. What it shows is that there are fall hunters who don't mind at all blasting as many turkeys as they can. While yours were legal, there are others who will do it when its not legal. The picture just proves what can happen to a flock of turkeys in areas where fall hunting is legal. I am thankful its not legal in the county where my farm is in AL, and we have way more turkeys than the counties I've hunted in TN that have fall seasons. Looks like the thread has drifted far from my original purpose, so I will bow out of it too, and turn it over to Joe. Good hunting to all! Again you don't know what you're talking about....those 5 turkeys came from two different flocks about a 1/2 mile apart. One flock was broke by my dog in the morning and the other broke in the afternoon and I could have legally killed one more that day.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
I have the same results with my Greener, but I still am curious about the results these guys are getting with their "pixie dust"....Geo
George they only recommend using TSS in guns with throw away barrels. I stand corrected....they recommend shooting TSS in guns with "replaceable barrels"
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,723 Likes: 126
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,723 Likes: 126 |
JOe brings up an important point. I have a couple of Savage 220 .410s and one 20ga I'd been thinking about trying out the TSS 9s in. I'd hate to ruin a barrel.
I'm sure that with (steel shot) shot collars the TSS would be no more likely to scratch the barrel than steel shot loads. I wonder though since all my singles are full choked whether anyone has experienced any problem with TSS #9s bridging and causing a ring bulge at the muzzle?...Geo
P.S.: Getting back to Coosa's original thoughts about barrel convergence, I also have an old Ithaca Lefever nitro special in 3" .410. I wonder how pixie dust will perform in it?
Last edited by Geo. Newbern; 05/15/13 04:05 PM. Reason: added postscript
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