doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Merkel Combo Gun -- Need Basic Info

The 7x57 and 7x57R are the same cartridge dimensions except for the rim addition to the R. The non-+P pressures are the same for both cartridges. If you do not buy the Sellier ammo, you can make cases from 444 Marlin brass, but it cheaper and easier to buy the Sellier ammo.

You can use regular 7x57 dies to load your ammo, just use the appropriate shell holder.

Make the SHORT trip and bring the gun to Amarillo and we will shoot it and have great fun
Hope this helps
Mike

Note that when you compare the 12.1mm to the 12.05mm you are comparing apples to oranges. The 12.1 diameter is over the "Rim" of the rimless 7x57 while the 12.05 is ahead of the rim on the 7x57R round. If you look at the diameter ahead of the extractor groove on the 7x57 it is only 12.01mm. Therefore the 7x57 just ahead of the extractor groove is .0016" "SMALLER" than the 7x57R just ahead of the rim. The 7x57R appears to be given a few tenths of mm's clearance at the shoulder the 7x57 doesn't have as the R round doesn't headspace on the shoulder. It is also my understanding the break open guns are compatible with the pressures of the 7x57 loads which were standard for many years & deemed suitable for the older Spanish M93 Mausers. I would not feed it higher pressure loads designed for "Modern" 7x57's regardless of which case they were loaded in.

Nevertheless they ARE different!
Look here:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=122777&page=2

Gunwolf

Texasjack,
I live 22 miles north of Auburn on US 431. You seem to be a little disturbed that the caliber of your gun is not marked as 7x57R; at the time they were not marked as to nominal caliber, only bore diameter(not groove or bullet dia)and case length(not if it was rimmed or not). Also this marking was done by the proofhouse, not maker.This often causes confusion; as an example, both 8x57IR and 8x57R/360 would be marked 7.8/57,even though they are very different cartridges. Also it can be very confusing to compare different dimensions of cartridges without knowing where thay came from, the differences cited above are so small as to be insignifcant.If you look at the dimensions of the same cartridge, from different sources,you may see similar differences.This happens when cartridge dimensions are given in one and chamber dimensions in another(ie measureing a cartridge vs chamber cast), to say nothing of differences in tolerances or outright mistakes in measuring.The 7x57R is simply the 7x57 with a rim added, and loaded to lower pressure in deference to the actions used with the rimmed cartridge.In case you couldn't tell,7x57R is one of my favorites.
Mike
AU, Class of 67

Gunwolf,
In the thread you cited,someone said they were different because he fireformed a 7x57 case in a 7x57R chamber and it wouldn't chamber in a 7x57 rifle. It is also possible that if he fireformed a 7x57 in a 7x57 rifle that it wouldn't chamber in a different 7x57 rifle(ie even if you took the "R" out of the equation). Of course if it was fireformed in the smallest chamber first, then it would chamber in the largest.In a set of headspace gages for rimless cartridge,the difference between go and no go will be from .003"to .006", depending upon the length of the cartridge(ie 308-.003; 30-06 -.006").Therefore, the chambers of two rifles can both be within spec and a case formed in one may or may not chamber in the other. Are we having fun yet?
Mike

Mike, War Eagle! I have attached several revealing photos below. Findings: (1) "3/29"....does this mean it was manufactured March 1929? (2) SN "16141" is shown on the embedded plate in the removed forearm. (3) "16141" shows also on the barrel. I surmise this is the original serial number. (4) "16867" also shows on the barrel. "16 7x57" shows on the barrel under "16867." Does this mean 16867 is a second serial number later stamped on the barrel, at the time it was rechambered to 7x57(R)? If yes, what was the original chambering, before 7x57(R)? (5) Some proof marks are shown in the photos, but the quality is poor. I will try again later to get good quality pics and post them. What are the thoughts of the experts, in Germany and Stateside.....?







TexasJack

Here are photos of the Zeiss scope. Is this era correct for this gun? Any comments about the scope?







TexasJack

Yes, I missed it by a year - March 1929. Merkel must have used the fastening process before they filed the patent. Tube effort by one of the best, Wilhelm Kelber & it has the interlaced J&Y for a mechanic that G�nter & I are chasing. The 16867 could be a number for Wilhelm Kelber or for the source of the B�hler tube steel. Is there not some proof data accompanied by a Crown over N on it somewhere?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have seen "bone" mentioned in the context of this type of gun. The trigger guard does not look like metal...can see light through it along thinner edges. Is it bone? Bone from what animal? Ditto for the butt plate. Photos of both follow.







TexasJack

There is a crown over a "G," or it could be a "C." Looked again...75% sure it's a "G."

TexasJack