doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Whats the straight of it about this Russian Purdey

http://ruvr.co.uk/2013_03_15/Russian-made-Purdey-up-for-auction/

Is it a Purdey or what?

No - it's a Tula MC-11, This was their top-of-the-line shotgun, made on a Beesley action.

Tula made a handful of these shotguns, and I've seen at least 3 others on the market. The Soviet government used a couple of them as presentation guns to important diplomats.

Here's one that was at Julia's in 2009:

http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/tula-arsenal-mc-11-beesley-self-opening-action-p-1-c-e83401e6eb

If you search the archives here I think you'll find out more about them. Geno knew more about them. American Rifleman mag published an article in '73 about the one at Julia's.

I've handled and inspected one. I think my friend still owns it. It was beautifully made, but not quite a Purdey. I was more of Tula's interpretation of a Purdey.

Fantastic gun, though.

OWD

Those Russians like gold. Scroll through this thread.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=124415

Purdey WHO!!!!!!!!!!

I have handled one and it is, in my opinion, better engineered than a Purdey. It has radiused corners on the action mating with radiused areas in the barrels, the metal surface finishing is superior to the Purdey version of the Beesley. However, they are heavy because they were designed from the start for 2 3/4 inch shells and pass shooting. The action is faithfull to the Beesley patent, with the full self opening feature, although the ejectors are based on the Baker design not the Southgate.

http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0018&LotRef=171
This one have a special history, it is in the nex Gavin Gardiner sale april 17.
I have shot one in Russia past yaer, great guns. Still available today, but not the same quality anymore as bofore.
Marc.

I think Roger Barlow wrote one of these up in a AR article back in the 70's.Gun had a lot of gold and beautiful color hardening as I remember.

Roger Barlow owned it.Article may have been in Gun Digest,not sure. Bobby

I'm sure it was in the AR as it was pictured on the cover too.I miss Barlow.

Trap, actually. The original intent behind this gun (and other early TKIB models) was to arm Soviet trap shooters with Soviet guns for the 1952 Olympic Games, the first Olympics USSR considered entering. If my memory serves, around 1947 The Tula Armory's Higher School of Gumaking was ordered to come up with 'improved' copies of guns with which top Soviet trap shots shot before WW2. They used a Lebeau to create TS1 (T for Tula and S for "Sport"), and a Purdey self-opener for TS2. However, the USSR trap team discovered that side-by-sides were on the way out as far as trap was concerned; they experimented with Winchester semis and Merkel o\u's for a while and finally decided an o/u would be their best bet. Concurrently, the School was transformed into 'Central R&D Bureau for Sproting Firearms', TsKIB for short. MTs 6 and 8 models were designed for trap, and TS 2 was rebranded MTs 11 and remarketed as top-notch presentation gun. Still in production as MTs111.

A Russian collector supplied me with this tid-bit of info:

After the WWII a gun making school was established in Tula.

The 1st shotgun was called TS (TC-1). It was a copy of a Lebeau sporting weapon(as HD notes).

The 2nd was called TS-2 (TC-2) and was a copy of Purdey self-opener(assisted opener) and was made by TCKIB (-Sporting and Hunting Guns Central Research and Design Bureau, Tula).

It was weak as sporting shotgun . The MC-11 (MU-11) was made on the basis of TS-2 .

The difference is reinforced bar and longer flat. The MC-11 has two other top lever actions: Greener cross bolt or Purdey latch.

The shotgun: MC-11 (MU;-11); Modifications: MU11-1, MU11-2, MU11-3, MU11-4(note the Us are as close to the actual character)

Destination: sporting

Caliber: 12 Chamber: 70 mm

Barrel length: 750 mm (trap), 675 mm (skeet) ; Steel: 50A (low-carbon, Izhevsk prod. - this is the 4 Ringe that replaced Krupp's 3 Ringe post WWII in Germany) -
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post172682


Weight: 3.5 - 3.7 kg

Action: self-opener (Beesley - Purdey)

Ejectors: no

The first was made in 1951 (actioner Vladimir Tetiorkin -)

Produced only 613 shotguns (from 1951 to 1955 - 328)

It was the main gift of Nikita Khrushchev (with very good finishing and case color hardening)

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So,for the auction company to call this a Purdey is as erroneous as someone claiming a Spanish sidelock to be a Spanish H&H?

I'd say so; maybe term it Beesley action type/variant or Purdey action type or pseudo Beesley/Purdey action. I have serious reservations that they sourced the actions from Britain.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I don't the specifics just yet, but apparently there are several, or many, fake TsKIBs, or variants. Seems to be centered around sporting weapons being assembled at home from components stolen from the factory.

I don't know if Moscow's mayor Yuri Luzhkov had any involvement or if he purchased one or had them made. But I've seen the name Luzhkov of Moscow tossed about.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I bought a Tula sporting shotgun from from an officer in the former USSR. He had commanded the Ukraine section so I'm inclined to believe he had open to him any firearm he wished. It was a nice enough gun but certainly no Purdey.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

OK.
The whole "Russian Purdey" thing is only a peculiar Russian way of saying something is the best in Russia. It's supposed to mean "TSKIB in Russia has the same standing as Purdey in the world", but somehow gets to mean that TSKIB is as good as Purdey. Anything could be called by this pattern. ZiL (the ugly limos the Soviet govt. used to ride in) - "Russian Rolls-Royce". A beauty queen could be called "Russian Marilyn Monroe", a rock performer - "Russian Elvis". Matzka is being called now and again the "Russian Purdey" too.

http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/det ... LotRef=171

Hammerprice 18000 pund

I had a good play with the gun last week. Not a bad effort, in fairness but not quite there. I have a lot of photos I took of it.

Here are the photos:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.553507808005959.1073741825.282264291796980&type=1

Well, does it even shoot?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Back in the Mid 1980s I had a client bring one of these"So Called Purdey Self Openers"into my W/Shop I pulled it down & Mystro McIntosh took a couple of "Rolls of 35mm roll-Film"The gun was built for Prime Minister Harold Wilson, and presented to him by The then Premier( I think Kosegin) Apologies for incorrect spelling of names).It was a "Splendid example of TULA GUNMAKING. I had it around for a couple of weeks, we shot a box or 2 of 1 1/4oz Pigeon Loads, it was too heavy for much recoil. The Single-Trigger was not working well. I have several photos of the complete inside workings, Locks,Trigger, Ejectors, & safety. I think Shooting Sportsman Mag' published several of my photos in our "Technicana Col. There is a "Time Served Gunmaker from Tula, living in Mass."Excellent workman"Sergay Lyenka"(My spelling) he is a wealth of INFO' on their guns. DT/CC.