doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question on a French SXS *More Pics Added**

Hello,

Was at a gunshow yesterday and this little 16 Ga. caught my eye. I like SXS and have a few drillings and really didn't need another but it was unique enough I knew it just had to follow me home but at $500 I am not sure if I got a good deal or not. There is a little wiggle between the barrel and fence with the forend off but if you slip a sheet of typing paper in the action you cannot slide it out so the play is minimal and should not effct function.

Barrels are 26" and pull to the front trigger is about 13 3/4" with about 1 1/8" of drop. I am not sure how you discribe the stock as it isn't the tranditional pistol grip or as pronounced as the Prince of Whales style and isn't a straight english style. It is a light gun tipping the scales at just a skoosh over 6 pounds.

From what I was told and can find the barrels, monoblock and lugs are all made from one piece of steel.

It has a really odd (to me) sight picture with the front site tucked down between the barrels and machined wing affair on the rear. It actually makes the front sight look closer than it really is.

Another item that struck me as unusual is that the Greener Style Cross Bolt that locks the barrel is Square,not round and the hole in the barrel extention is square as well and not round.

Chokes are a bit odd compared to what I am use to seeing the right barrel is actually tighter (full) than the left barrel (Improved Modified).

Anyhow I am looking for some information on the gun, aproximate age and value as well as who it may have been made by and if it is safe to shoot. Most of the markings are clear in the photos that are attached, let me know if you need to see something else. I am assuming the 6.5 indicates the gun originally had 2.5" chambers but at sometime they were extened to 2.75" according to my chamber gauge.

In case they are hard to see there is a on the water table:
PT with crown over it
PS with crown over it
Number 54

On the barrel Flats and barrels there are:
What looks like an EP, E backwards, inside a circle
16.8
6.5
2 R's back to back
PT with crown
PS with crown
3988
C.G.Paris
Rectifie in a semi circle
the letter S
the work Monobloc
The number 454

My concern is if it is rated for nitro powder and safe to shoot with moderate to light loads for bird hunting?

Pics below,, Any and all help appreciated....

Thanks,
DonT










[img]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc311/MilitaryDon/DSC05170_zpsb2e431f9.jpg[/img]

Welcome to the site.
It would sure be nice if you could get clearer pictures of the proof marks. As far as I can see it has St. Etienne single proofs of 14,223 psi. Still I'd like to see better pictures of the marks at the end of the barrel flats. There'll be others chipping in with more information.
Steve
BTW the barrel lengths are metric.

Can't help with the details although there are people on here who can, but that certainly looks like more than $500 worth of gun to me!

I'll be very interested to see what people want to call that grip (I'd call it "French.").

$550???
WELL we have all spent more than that on bubble gum !!
Much cheaper than a shrink!
Good for you
Enjoy the gal
Mike

Hi Don,
This gun is very early 20th century, as it is proved for both "Poudre S" and "T". Certainly made pre-WWI.
The EP is a Parisian proof mark.
I don't know who "CG" was, and even tough it says monobloc, I don't say any evidence of a sleeved construction.
Could you please post a close-in of the proof marks on the barrels? and of any other marking?

That would greatly help.
Best regards,
WC-

This grip is called "demi pistolet" i.e half pistol.
Very common in France....
WC-

Not what we call a half pistol grip, tho. Definitely "French." Wonder how it feels?

I like "open" or half pistol grips (or whatever the British call them--Prince Albert? Cavalier Spaniel? Wife of Bath?). This French one might be a little TOO open for my hands, but I'd like to find one and see.

WC, thanks for the information concerning the grip, I have the same type of grip on one of my French guns and I wondered if there was a name for the style. While I'm not crazy about how it looks, I'll concede that it's a very comfortable grip.
Steve
PS I just double checked my proof manual and wasn't able to find any Paris proof marks. What am I missing here?

You don't see nearly as many guns with Paris proofs as St. Etienne. Rockdoc, not sure what your proof source is, but Wirnsberger shows the Paris proofs, as does Baron Engelhardt.

That style grip is actually fairly common on French guns. The square crossbolt, not so much--but I've seen some. All the smokeless proofs except PT went away in 1914, so as WC says, it's a pre-WWI gun. The rib, with the short, raised section in the rear, is also typically French, as are the sling swivel studs. Looks like nice wood, a little engraving. R choke tighter than L is a little unusual.

I'd say you did well on the price.

Larry, I do have a 1976 edition of Wirnsberger's directory, I don't see any Paris proof marks on the gun. However, I did see what looked to me like St. Etienne proof marks, though they were so fuzzy by the time I'd enlarged the image I wasn't sure.
Steve