doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com So, I bought a Manufrance Ideal in Baltimore

Its a really neat light gun in 12 guage Grade 2 with an english stock retractable sling and loaded chamber indicators, and in pretty high condition.
Is there a way to find the date of manufacture on these?
Mine is SN 5719x

My chart says 1927

awesome, thanks

Very nice. I just purchased the same a few weeks ago. Mine does not have the retractable sling but the slot remains. Stock is a pistol grip and has been shortened too much for me but nice for my wife. As well the lock screw on the bottom of the receiver is missing. Are sling replacements and lock screws available anywhere?

On another point I was surprised to find loaded chamber indicators as I thought they might be cocking indicators. (I am very new to the Manufrance and know very little about them.)

Welcome to our world, but keep it quiet- we don't want others to find out how great these guns are. Please post pics- here's my 16 ga, made when the clouds of war were forming in Europe again, 1937:

Lawrence, I suppose your Ideal gun is a No.2? Wingshooter 16, which model is yours?

JC is our local guru on Ideal guns.

Yes, they are wonderful. Nice carrying guns, very good for rough shooting, after pheasant, partridge, chukar, quail and perdiz.

EJSXS

Mine is a #2, it is marked on the barrel lug where it shows through the frame.

Lawrence does your marking only show a 2? Mine shows a 2R.

Lawrence & Tamid,

they are different models, to the best of my knowledge R should mean "reinforced", this applies to most models in the interwar period. In any event, I have passed the question to JC and he should come up soon with a definitive answer.

Regards,

EJSXS

On my barrel lug it is No. with a 2 underneath

I believe I've read that the "R" is for "reinforced" or something like that; presumably means stronger action. I think my 16ga Ideal is a 3R. Sadly, the sling mechanism is gone from mine. I bought an old .22 automatic made by Hi-Standard just for the sling which should be interchangeable, but because my stock had also been shortened I could not use it ...Geo

I bought a very plain 20 ga. last year for my wife. Marked "No. 205" on the lug. Why is this a three digit code? This one had a ruined stock from unsuccessful attempts at disassembly. The stock is done except for checkering but was not fun to make. It's a clever design but nothing draws the wood up snug to the metal. The stock also has a lot of wood removed for the cocking/opening lever. I thought it likely to spread laterally under recoil so I epoxy bedded the stock head even though everything fit tight.

If you go to the GournetUSA Forum, there is plenty of information in a multitude of threads on Manufrance Ideals.

http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/

What is the relationship,if any, between these French guns and Dickson round actions?
Jim

In short, nothing...
WC-

The 205 is a grade which existed 1919-1921. 20GA Ideals are very rare.

WC-

The R (Renforce) was intended to address the smokeless (Pyroxylee) powders. The 2R existed from 1899 to 1924.
Best regards,
WC-

Jim, here is a link to a thread that has lots of pics of the interior of an Ideal. You will notice three things....very simple, very sturdy and like no other action.

http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=494

Here are my two.

12 gauge No6R




16 gauge Lunette

Very, very nice!
WC-

314

Postoak, I have specifically passed on some nice Ideals because they had the lunette trigger guard. How has it affected your use of that Ideal?

Lawrence was in luck at the Baltimore show. As he was standing in front of my table showing me his new acquisition, Geoffrey Gournet appeared and gave his take on the gun. How neat is that?

Thanks everyone for the info on the 20 gauge No. 205. This gun may be somewhat rare but it was a train wreck when I got it. The screws were all missing or ruined. Whoever had attempted to take it to pieces had not known enough to raise the lever to remove the triggerplate. They just pulled on the wood. This broke the stock top and bottom and severely bent the opening lever. Thankfully the barrels are perfect and all other parts are ok. Hopefully will be a nice light gun for my wife. Plan on using 3/4 oz. RST loads since it is so light. My wife and I usually chat with Gournet and his wife at the Vintage Cup so I will be sure to let him see it.

Thanks canvasback:
I was aware that one of the characteristics of the Dickson round action was the mechanics are located on the trigger plate. This French double has a similiar exterior appearance to me as a Dickson but I can now see that's where the resemblence ends.
Jim

One more question. The 205 is a low grade with just a touch of engraving. The gun looked to have all original finishes. The frame was blued on this gun and I'm wondering if this was really original. It doesn't look like a hot blue and there is no polishing damage so I thought this might be factory (except for the rust!).