doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Arrieta Shotguns. Big Changes to Come

....As well as Ugartechea

Apologies for wee hijack but last night after reading this thread I took out my 12g Plain Jane entry Army and Navy which sold for six pounds six shillings in 1913, probably made by Webley and Scott, admired its half-colour and tightness etc and said to myself this, of all the others, will be the last to go!

I don't know how much any of them--or us--will be jumping for joy. The word I've heard is that Spanish guns are likely to see a 20% increase fairly soon. The Grade III Uggie, which is the least expensive boxlock ejector out there, is currently going for $2400 (more for a smallbore), which is not far behind the price of an AyA 4/53 not all that long ago. There are a lot of used Spanish guns available, and that's where people are going to be looking for "buys", as the prices on new ones continue to escalate.

Doverham, I have a very nice Charles Lancaster SLE that I like a lot. But if someone were to offer me $15K for it--actually even somewhat less--I'd give very serious thoughts to selling. For $15K, you can get a REALLY nice Brit SLE from just about any maker except Purdey-H&H-Boss-Woodward, as well as a truly exceptional Lindner or Francotte.

It shows how stupid they are - why don't they just have the guns made in China? That way, their CEO and his cronies can make even larger bonuses, the shareholders can see higher dividends, and everyone else can get tossed.

Spoken like a true bitter liberal Democrat, sarcasm notwithstanding. Not to mention the fact that it's stupid to apply some twisted, corporate-hate logic to a polar opposite entity like a boutique/artisan gunmaker. But, when you think like a socialist, this is the result.
JR

Returning to the focus of the original post which was that Arrieta Shotguns is abandoning the mid-to-low range of production and focusing on higher grades.

Is this a sign that many buyers of new guns either want to high end of nothing?

Arrieta's answer appears to be yes. The new manufacture SxS market is gravitating away from mid-range guns. This does not mean that secondary market for mid-range guns is off, just that they are not selling enough of them new to be worthwhile to Arrieta.

I must admit that I am a contributor to this reality in that when I have had $5k to spend on a gun it has been on the used market and not the new purchase market. In all the long gun transactions I have done in 30 plus years (over 45 purchases) I have never brought a new gun. I have felt I can get more for my dollar that way.

With this recession we are having I would expect the opisite. I have owned (and sold all of them) all brands of the Spanish guns. I have owned the 557 Arrieta, 215 Grulla, AYA #2 and the Garbi 100. Of all of them the Garbi is by far the nicest.
I really did not care for the engraving on the rest. In fact I would rather have had the Orvis Uplander with no engraving.
The prices for the high grades equal what you can buy a nice English sidelock. If you look at Joseph's web site they have a very nive Evans with 30" tubes completly restored priced cheaper than the high end Spanish guns.
The secret to buying Spanish guns is to buy used ones. The prices are almost half of a new one.

If you click through CSMC's website a certain way, you end up on an old (undated) page showing earlier prices for their AH Foxes. It lists the DE for $19k - today it is $25k, which equates to close to a 30% increase. The Spanish are not the only ones facing pricing pressure . . . .

Gents, as Americans we all think in terms of large numbers when we think of manufacturing and that combined with our individual economics tend to color our thinking. The small "best" Spanish makers are likely producing less than 1000 guns a year, maybe less than 750 (Garbi, Arrieta/PA, Grulla). Just counting Spain, the UK, America, and Argentina the potential customers are in the hundreds of thousands. There is competition from Italy et al, but these are still the last makers of the bespoke side by side English style guns at anywhere near a reasonable price. Used guns, like used cars, are always a better economic decision but egos must be filled, right?

There is demand, but what we are seeing is that the lower margins on the 550 and 570 like guns are not enough to keep the small makers going. A strategy is to limit production to higher grades (Garbi and Arrieta/PA), shift the supply curve down so you can bring prices up, and concede the low end ($5k'ish if you can call that low) to Uggie and AYA both of whom make a lot of their own parts rather than source from other suppliers.

That is really the only option if you won't do what is necessary to reduce costs and you can't increase volume because there just isn't any way to increase skilled workers over the short to medium term. The Americans, the Italians, the Brits, and the Turks are all incorporating CNC machines that have high capital costs but produce lower marginal costs over time. I don't think that would be in the Basque character.

well mabe a small maker in the us will open and compete and make a US made side lock in that price range you know a nice game gun 20 or 12 light real engraving nice wood. well we can dream right?