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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621 |
Actually it is a 26in. 12 GA. Skeet Model with an optional splinter forearm and with a straight grip. The wood while hardshell walnut is beautiful, it is not very dense and I believe that is what saves on the weight.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165 |
Unusually light for a 12ga Mod 21, even with 26" barrels.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,617 Likes: 1026
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,617 Likes: 1026 |
That's a weight you usually only see English 12s obtaining. As a rule, the Spanish guns run a little bit heavier(~6lbs12) because their relatively new (and largly un-honed!) barrels are usually set up to shoot 2 3/4 inch loads, with the American guns in the 7 1/2 to 8 lb class (and that's even some 20 bores!). Model 21s in 12 bore are usually in the 8lb range.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 02/19/13 11:04 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 701 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 701 Likes: 12 |
That's a weight you usually only see English 12s obtaining. As a rule, the Spanish guns run a little bit heavier(~6lbs12) because their relatively new (and largly un-honed!) barrels are usually set up to shoot 2 3/4 inch loads, with the American guns in the 7 1/2 to 8 lb class (and that's even some 20 bores!). Model 21s in 12 bore are usually in the 8lb range. Lloyd3, the Spanish will build a gun to any weight you specify--within reason, of course. I own an Arrieta 12-ga. 2-bbl. set w/28" bbls. One set is chambered for 2 3/4", the other for 3". With either set the gun weighs 6 lbs. 6 oz.
Wild Skies
Since 1951
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1355
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1355 |
Its easy to say a 26" barreled 12 has doubled in price in the last three years. But, it would be tough to prove it.
Lots of short barreled 12s are languishing on dealers shelves these days. Model 21 and otherwise.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 971 Likes: 41
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 971 Likes: 41 |
A Dickson or WR regarded as "second tier" is a new one for me!
There is one English firm, Boxall and Edminston offering their new OU at just over 10 000 sterling. When Spanish guns start edging pricewise close to English guns made by a former production director of Holland and Holland (Mr Boxall), then the Spanish gunmakers need to rethink of their methods.
Not having visited the Spanish factories, but having seen some videos I can see an absence of modern cost cutting CNC machines. Perhaps that is part of the problem.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008 |
Yep, and the Longthorne-Hesketh is (I believe) totally machine-made and made in UK and it, too, is around 10000. I hope to see (and possibly shoot) one this spring. The Hesketh is also an OU but the firm may be coming out with a SxS in near future.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,617 Likes: 1026
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,617 Likes: 1026 |
Wild Skies: I agree that the Spaniards can build to whatever you want, with-in reason. But....I've never seen a Spanish 2-inch 12, or even a 28, that wasn't a wee bit heavy. Now, maybe they were ordered that way, but I'm not convinced. Maybe it's the fear of liability, maybe it's a minor lack of finesse, I don't really know. English (and Scottish) guns almost always seem to be more petite and lighter than their newer Spanish counterparts. As I pointed out in an earler post, on older English guns the tubes have likely been honed many times to keep them "mirror smooth" for the next new owner. The newer Spanish guns are rumored to also be built to withstand the possible advent of steel shot, and accordingly, they are more substantial. And, unlike English guns, they are almost always built to chamber American loads. This would necessitate a slightly more substantial action as well.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 02/19/13 03:06 PM.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 621 |
Its easy to say a 26" barreled 12 has doubled in price in the last three years. But, it would be tough to prove it.
Lots of short barreled 12s are languishing on dealers shelves these days. Model 21 and otherwise.
Best,
Ted TED: First not wanting to appear picayune but I said the shotgun went up 50% in value and that would mean it had increased half again its' value [e.g. $5200 to $7800], to DOUBLE IN VALUE IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO UP 100%. That being said if you can find anymore Model 21's as I described languishing on the dealer's shelves, especially with factory splinter forearms and "as new mint" let me know, it won't languish there much longer. Proving it [value increase] is fairly easy in fact, I have tried to buy another one like it in 16 gauge and everyone wants 8000+, and while the gauge difference may make up some of the difference, it would be negligible as 16's were the second most prolific gauge after 12's. Keep me posted when you find me one!
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14 |
Lloyd3, I have a 2" 12g Arrieta at 5lbs 14 oz. My Garbi 20g 103a weighs 5 lbs 15 oz. I have a Garbi 28 under 6 lbs. I have handled 12g spaniards at anywhere from 6 lbs 6 oz to 6 lbs 12oz, which is coincidently exactly the weight of my 1899 William Evans 12 g (6lbs 6oz) and my 1906 Lang (6 lbs 12 oz).
I think the idea that English and Scottish guns are more lithe is very subjective. Everyone concedes that Best English guns are the pinnacle. But Italians and spaniards get close at substantially better prices.
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