doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Damascus Pattern Interpretation

Didn't want to distract from the H. Pieper thread so:

"Counting Scrolls"

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1zMmG-80ZUWwiLDbjBNk-wiOdDxKrhQL6jMNs5L2XVfc



Look around here under "Art"

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1y52UbLaVsDAYd3BJLNTzTnqa7CzuhnbgonQzuYRuLvs

Ah, the "Rosetta Stone" at last! Thank you so kindly.

Would this particular pattern be possibly also called "Best English 4-Iron Damascus"? The four-pointed "stars" outlined between two of the "full" scrolls here are fairly distinct. On some of the better guns I've looked at, these "stars" are quite distinct, even in exremely fine patterns. I was told by somebody (can't remember just where or by who at the moment)in my travels that this was a distinction to look for in better quality barrels. I've seen at least two guns where this feature was/is very prominent; one was an early John Dickson Round action and the other is a 1891 Boss-barreled John Hobson sidelock gun. When I stretch my memory, I can also recall a lovely, early Woodward hammer gun (that was reputedly re-browned by Dr. Gaddy). Absolutely gorgeous stuff!

Brother Drew, thanks for the lesson. I think Lloyd3 might be referring to this type of "star" pattern. This is on a L.C. Smith grade 2E, and not normally found on lower graded guns without being ordered.

What David said, and different from Etoile'

Star



Turkish Star



Etoile' with tiny stars within the scroll



Washington

All are beautiful, but that Elsie comes the closest to what I was describing. Incredibly even patterns with very distinctive "stars" seem to distinguish the more expensively optioned guns I've seen (along with the great wood, stunning engraving, fine handling characteristics, etc., you know- "best"). From reading Greener's book, I understand that "overworking" as he referred to it can lead to less tensile and/or "burst" strength, but with few exceptions, the top of the lines guns I've seen and handled from the damascus era seem to have these features.

FWIW: I've owned and shot laminated steel guns (in 20-bore, 70mm nitro proof) that were supposedly as strong or stronger than Best English 3-bar (the 1894 Field Trial comparisons seemed to at least indicate that) but the tubes looked like plain skelp to me. Nowhere near as pretty.

Lloyd - both English and Belgian (some of suspect quality) Twist barrels were routinely marked 'Laminated Steel'

Weren't the Belgians more prone to that? Greener's missives were pretty hard on them (but of course, W.W. was hard on anything that wasn't his or "properly English"). It was my understanding that true English Laminated steel was pretty good stuff, and that it appeared near the end of the damascus era. My little 1894 Bland Hammer 20 had London Proofs for something like 950 BAR. BTW-your above photo captures it perfectly!

There were several variants of Laminated Steel, some early and some late
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1__gn3XKjLX_4V0LguzoVGBwJRFS6SxsWGzUwHq93neo
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18063717

"English machine-forged 3 rod Laminated steel" did win the 1891 Proof House Trial
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA

1891! That's right...didn't the laminated steel even beat out some of the far-more expensive fluid steel stuff? Killer photos, BTW