doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com help with identification please

Some of the photos.

I stand appropriately chastened regarding the powder charge.Once again, this just proves "haste makes waste".
Mike

2.9 Grams makes a lot more sense than 29 Grams. On a very poor condition 16/16/8x58Sauer drilling I have proofed 1907 the shot bbls are marked 2Gr Sch. P. / 28.3Gr Bl with a crown/N mark.
I cannnot verify the accuracy but did read some time back from a sourse I though reliable at the time that German proof laws prior to 1912 required a shot bbl to be proofed wit a load of double the amt of powder specified for the service load. This it was stated was the reason so many pre 1912 German guns carried no nitro proof & those which did most often had a very light service load marked on them. This is compatable with my bbls.
However doubling 2.9Gr gives 5.8Grs of Schultz or about 89� grains which = 6.4 Drams Equivelent.This is still one Whopping Big load of Schultz in a 16ga even for a proof load.
Doubling the 2Grs as on my bbls would ebd up with about a 4.4 Dram Equivelent proof load, still quite stout aplenty.

Looks like the 9 on the assumed 29 just might be the g for grams; therefore, a 2 gram load?

So 2-piper is correct as for a 12 bore stamped with 2,2 g Sch. P. over 32g Blei a proof load is 4,4 grams of Schultze & 42,7 grams of shot.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Miller: Be careful with your weight abbreviations. The abbreviation for grams is g. The abbreviation for grains is gr. There are 15.4gr in 1g.

I didn't read everything here, but isn't this the common Sauer side lever hammer drilling system?

With kind regards,
Jani

Tom;
It seems the Suhl proof stamper in 1907 wasn't aware of that. My bbls are stamped 2 gr Sch.P. / 28,3 gr Bl.
These grs are obviously Grams in both cases & not Grains. I was just stating how this gun was marked, no more no less.
The / is not on the gun, just indicates what follows is on a different line beneath the other. I always carry the conversion to two decimal places & call it 15.43 grs per g. 15.43 x 28.3 = 436.669 grains which is mighty close to an ounce @ 437.5 grs. I normally call an oz 28.35 gs which times the 15.43 grs gives 437.44 grs which is close enough for a Red Neck HillBilly for use in a shotgun.

Hi Daryl,
Thanks for the help on the site and for getting the photo�s on there,
I have drawn the barrels on paper and marked them with all the stamp marks which are on them, ( in their prospective positions),
Can you possibly make any sense of them,
I need to know what the Caliber is for registration, the bullet size & type, and shell case size length and material,
Also if they can be obtained, to make the weapon serviceable,

By My calculations on the evidence provided so far,
By me as a non expert, reading the info, i have deduced the following:
The 2 Shotgun Barrels are 16 ga, smooth Bore, As per 16/1 . Crown with �S� under it.
And the left barrel has a crown with a W under it signifying the left is choked,
The Proof markings �U� with a crown over it are stamped on all three Barrels
And the N/A is Nitro Approved.
Also the N With a crown over it is also nitro approved proof mark
AM I CORRECT ?

My Problems come with The Letter W under a crown, under the L-H Barrel slide,
The letters B G (the G is capital in scroll writing) on the underside of the centre barrel
The 29 Sch P N/A (which I take it is 2.9 SCH P N/A) is that the Nitro proof charge for the Rifled or smooth bore.
Now Known to probably be 2 g Sch P N/A, which would be 2 grams nitro,

And The 27.gBl ? ( I don�t know).

Using Digital Calipers�, I have found the Ejection Ring seat to be Approx 12mm, which would be the Rim of the Case,
The approx internal bore size, at the exit end: to be + - 9mm (and is worn would this be 8.8mm
The approx internal bore size, at the Shell casing end: to be + - 10.5 mm
Best wishes from Exsilky (Harry)

16 x 16 x 9.3x72R is what I would expect,
Please try to find a 9.3x72R cartridge and
see if it fits the chamber

Often the 9.3 guns were marked 8.8

Mike

Harry;
The 27.gBl ? is 27 grams of lead. That would be the shot load which is just shy of an ounce, about 15/16oz. I have not looked at a lot of German guns & had not run into the N/A before, but I believe this is not the proof charge, but the service charge. Using Schultz powder this would be for the shot bbls. Shultz was a bulk smokeless powder which was bulked up so that a "Dram Equivelent" charge of it could be measured in a black powder measure. A 3 dram "Measure" of Schultz was set as weing 42 grains. A 2.9 gram measure would weigh about 44.75 grains or about 3 3/16 dram equivelent load.
I forget the exact spelling now but Bl is an abbreviation of a German word meaning lead. Geschoss(Spelling) is a German word for essentially bullet. One often sees the mark BlG on rifle bbls proofed for use with lead bullets. This "May" be what your BG is with the l omitted in the stamping, not sure.