doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com History of 10 ga. magnum load

I have a Lefever 10ga E grade ca 1889 with 3" chambers & also a post 1907 Lefever 16ga H grade with 3" chambers as well. I can't of course vouch that either left the factory with that length chamber, but as shells were available in those lengths to order at the time of build & would not be many years hence till they would become unavailable in either of those gauges the logical explanation is they were ordered that way.

Researher;
I only have a very meager collection of old shells but am almost certain I have some old factory paper 10 ga shells which are shorter than 2 7/8", probably 2 5/8". I will have to get them out & see what I have. I can of course only measure the loaded length, but can determine very close to what the fired length would be.

The 12-, 16-, and 20-gauge shells were offered in a plethora of lengths into the 1930s, but in all my old ammo catalogues I only find 2 7/8 inch 10-gauge shells offered.

I do know that after the 3 1/2 inch Magnum 10-gauge came on the market, some gun cranks had the chambers of their Super-Tens lengthened to 3-inches, trimmed the long hulls and hand loaded 1 3/4 ounce loads. A friend has such a No. 4E NID Super-Ten and several letters back and forth with Lou Smith at Ithaca about it.

From all my ammo catalogues from the mid-1890s to the introduction of the 2 7/8 inch Super-Ten load, I can't see any point in having one of those big heavy old 10-gauges, as all the factory offered loaded shells were 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 ounce which one could get in any length 12-gauge shell? I'm sure many of the old Nimrods who had those old heavy 10-gauges must have been handloading heavier shells.

All my growing up hunting years one of the guys we hunted with used a composite barrel, I don't remember if it was Twist or Damascus, Syracuse L.C. Smith 10-gauge that weighed less than my Super-Fox. He shot everything in that gun, from his 1 1/8 ounce handloads for Doves to the 1 5/8 ounce Super-Ten loads for Ducks and Geese.

Reasercher;
As I said my shell collection is very meager, only a few odds & ends I have picked up from various places over the years. I do not have many tens at all & most of those are 2 7/8". These include; Climax, Western (Field), Winchester (Leader), Western (Super-X), Remington (Express). I have then two new Empties of 2 7/8" length, one a UMC Co New Club & the other is stamped simply Winchester N-10.These loaded ones all have an unfired length of about 2 5/8".
I do then have two 10s of a shorter length. One is a Rem-UMC No 10 New Club. It has an 8-point star around the primer with top wad marked Remington 3� 1 1/8 7 UMC. The other was loaded by Selby. Case is headstamped 1901 No 10 Leader, primer has a W in the center. Top wad is marked Selby 30 7 1 1-8 Ballistite.
The Selby load has a loaded length of 2 5/16" so would be about a 2�" fired length & the Leader hull has a brass height of a full inch so is near to half its length in the brass head.
The Rem-UMC shell has a loaded length of 2 7/16" so would be about right for a 2 5/8" fired length.
The 2 7/8" cases all seem to have a bit deeper crimp than the two shorter ones also, thus a bit shorter loaded length in relation to their presumed fired length.

2-piper--your mentioning of the 10 bore Remington Express shells brings back many fond memories yet I weep for all those empty shells I so carelessly dis-carded in the field as a kid. I think I have one or two of those old paper shells left. They were sealed with a round piece of paper with the shot size printed on the paper.

I stopped and looked at Elmer Keith's 10 Mag this morning. It is a serious looking gun! Unfortunately he restocked it in light colored wood with the modernistic style that was in vogue in the 60's, so it is not much to look at. More appealing was his 10Ga Purdy that is classic and very nice. I notice the spec sheet from Purdy indicates it was proofed for 1 1/2 oz loads. I could not read the chamber length, but not a 3 1/2" gun I am sure.

Lucky guy. I'd be happy just to look at one of Elmer's old cigar butts.

There was no Rem-UMC until 1911, so that Rem-UMC New Club shell may be a 2 7/8 inch shell cut down. I know Remington or Remington - UMC did load shorter shells which were never catalogued in North America. I inherited a box of Remington Arms Co., Inc. 1930s vintage 2-inch Shur-Shot 12-gauge shells and the KLEANBORE stamping on the side of the tube wraps around into the roll crimp. The load on the top wad is 2 3/4 - 3/4 - 7 1/2C.

Back to the 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten. When Western Cartridge Co. introduced it in 1932 they offered BB, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 chilled shot and BB, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 Lubaloy shot. In the December 14, 1936, Western Cartridge Co. price list the #3 shot that Elmer liked so well is listed as discontinued, available subject to stock on hand. In the January 16, 1953, Western Cartridge Co. price list the #5 and #6 shot is listed as discontinued, available subject to stock on hand for both their 2 7/8 and 3 1/2 inch Super-X 10-gauge shells, and the 10-gauge 2 7/8 inch Xpert 4 1/4 dram equiv. 1 1/4 ounce shell is also listed as discontinued, available subject to stock on hand. In the 1961 catalogue the BB shot size was listed as discontinued, available subject to stock on hand in the Winchester and Western 10-gauge offerings, and by the 1962 catalogue the #2 shot in the 2 7/8 inch Super-X was so listed. For 1963 the Lubaloy #2 shot got the discontinued, available subject to stock on hand. So, by 1964 the only 10-gauge shells offered were the Super-Ten with 1 5/8 ounce of #4 chilled and the Magnum-Ten with 2 ounces of #2 or 4 chilled or #4 Lubaloy. By 1968, the Magnum-Ten with #4 chilled was gone anf the #4 Lubaloy was discontinued, available subject to stock on hand. From then on through the 1970s into the mid-1980s, the only 10-gauge shells Winchester-Western offered were 2 7/8 inch Super-X or Super-Speed with 1 5/8 ounce of #4 shot or the 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten Super-X with 2 ounces of #2 shot. Though in 1978 they added the 10-gauge 3 1/2 inch Magnum Super-X Double X loading with 2 1/4 ounces of BB, 2 or 4 shot.

From this discussion, I suspect that my Rem '89 was rechambered in the late 1920s or early '30s when the word "Magnum" was around, and the gunsmith just used the "Magnum" stamp on a "Super 10" reamed chamber. Kinda glad he did; not sure an '89 is a fit chassis for a 3 1/2" magnum! It's HEAVY enough, tho! Good coyote killer.

My 1889 has damascus barrels. No magnum stamp but it digested a lot of those old paper shells. I would have to measure the barrels to be sure but I think they are 32 inches long. Yes it's heavy built and if Remington would make the 1889 again with modern metalurgy I would buy one in a heartbeat.

I would too except for two things (the BIG butts) price and drop. I'm afraid the price would need to be low and the drop higher....

Mine also has 32" barrels, and an (added I think) little dovetailed-in fixed blade open sight on the rib, plus a dovetailed-in gold bead on a tiny ramp. Professional work for sure, but I don't think factory. I have a couple of my great grandfather's "punkin balls" that he apparently had the sights and chokeless barrel for. They are in Peters high base paper 2 5/8" cases. Wicked.