doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why did repeaters come to dominate ?? opinions

I think it is ironic that he designed the Superposed after he gutted the two-barrel gun manufacturers with his repeaters.

Craig this was a fun thread.. Thanks for starting it.

Here is an old post I made long ago on the doublegun BBS --

The repeaters were not really cheaper until just before WW-II.

In my 1902 Sears catalogue the Remington Model 1900 K-Grade was $25, a Batavia Leader was $24, a Grade 1P Ithaca was $26.50, an L.C. Smith 00 was $27.75, and a VH-Grade Parker Bros. was $36.75. In the same Catalogue the Winchester Model 1897 solid-frame was $17.82 and the take-down was $19.24 -- 30- or 32-inch full choke barrels in 12-gauge and 28-inch barrel in 16-gauge. The Model 1897 Brush Guns with 26-inch cylinder bore barrels were $19.24 solid-frame and $20.67 take-down?!? Sears probably represents closer to actual selling prices then the factory catalogue "list prices."

William Read & Sons, Boston, 1906 Catalogue gives both "List" and "net" prices. For the standard American doubles prices range -- L.C. Smith 00-grade net $25; Parker Bros. VH-Grade net $37.50 up to AAHE-Grade net $318.75; Ansley H. Fox A-Grade net $37.50 up to F-Grade net $350; Remington Model 1900 K-Grade net $25 up to CEO "Trap" net $95; Lefever DS-grade net $25 up to Optimus net $280; Ithaca Field Grade net $18 up to Quality 7 net $213.75; and Batavia Special net $18 up to Quality L Trap or Pigeon net $127.80. For the repeaters -- The Remington Automatic Shotgun Quality No. 1 net $30 up to a Quality No. 5 Expert at a net price of $75; Winchester Model 1897 Standard gun solid-frame net $20 and take-down net $21 up to Pigeon gun net $80; and Marlin Model 24 Grade A net $21.25 to Grade D net $76.95.

In a 1908-09 Remington Catalog, the No. 1 Standard Grade Autoloading Gun (pre Model 11) was list priced at $40, up to a No. 6 Premier at $150, with a matted rib $7 extra on any of them. The K-Grade Model 1900 was list priced at $30, and the doubles ran from there up to the $750 Remington Special.

Remington-UMC Catalogue 1918-19 -- Model 11A "Standard" Grade $52.00; Model 10A "Standard" Grade $42.00. A.H. Fox Gun Co. 1919 Catalogue was the year the Sterlingworth peaked at a price of $55 and with ejectors $67.50. By 1922 Fox dropped the price to $48 and in 1926 cut the price (and quality) to $36.50. Ithaca Gun Co. July 29, 1919, Field Grade $41 to Sousa Special at $700. December 1, 1919, Ithaca raised the list price of the Field Grade to $45.

From the 1929 Stoeger Catalog 10 --

Standard Grade Winchester Model 12 -- $49.25
Standard Grade Winchester Model 97 -- $43.30
Marlin Model 42A -- $42.20
Marlin Model 43A -- $49.80
Remington Model 11A Standard Grade -- $56.75
Remington Model 29A Standard Grade -- $49.30
Field Grade L.C. Smith dt extractor -- $40.00
Field Grade NID Ithaca dt extractor -- $37.50
Fox Sterlingworth dt extractor -- $36.50
Parker Bros. Trojan dt extractor -- $55.00

By the 1932 Stoeger -- doubles -- Fox-Sterlingworth $39.50; Ithaca Field Grade $40.55; Parker Bros. Trojan $60.50; L.C. Smith Field Grade $43.20 -- repeaters -- Winchester Model 12 Standard Grade $47.90, Model 97 Standard Grade $37.20; Remington Model 11A $53.40, Model 29A $37.10, Model 31A $47.90.

I guess that wears out all possible comparisons I can make. Which proves?

Don't know about that regiment, but I guy I served alongside in the Army has the Springfield musket his great-great uncle carried when wounded in one of the preliminary battles at Vicksburg and brought home with him.

No, but don't ask me if he broke his ankle.

Joe, those are remarkable artifacts. Chickamauga and Gettysburg were the first two battlefields preserved after the war. I've not seen Gettysburg, but spent time at Chickamauga. It is amazing what was done then to preserve and document the unit positions and movements of both sides during the engagement. It is now a beautiful, peaceful place and it's sobering to imagine the horror that took place on its sacred grounds.

Thanks for posting that group of photos, Joe. The Bible, I see, was distributed by the Augusta Confederate States Bible Society. Since it was printed in Atlanta, it is probably safe to assume that was Augusta, GA., just up the road from me a piece. Sure would like to know the name of that soldier who lost it.

But, back to the original topic, I have taken it for granted for many years that it was because of increased firepower. I believe the average shooter in that day was a more careful shot than today. I do not believe there was as much disposable income to spend on shells, and all the other stuff that we spend it on that accompanies shooting/hunting. Therefore, I think it is safe to assume that the average bird hunter in that day could make better use of more than two shots than the average shooter of today.

Remember, when they first came out, there were no restrictions on magazine capacity, either. The Win. 97 would hold 7. In that day, the sky would turn dark with ducks, and a man could kill 50-100 quail in a day. It was all about meat, or piling up the gamebirds to sell to make a living. The large capacity repeaters were a huge boon to market hunters. We cannot relate to why they felt they needed it because we cannot imagine being able to kill over 5 ducks, or 15 doves a day.

SRH

Stan, there was no name in the bible. However, there was an unused railroad ticket inside for the Alabama & Mississippi Rivers R. "Selma to "o, good for this day only". Also a penciled note inside saying
"This Book was picked up on one of the streets of Selma Alabama on Apr 3d 1865-(the day after the Battle in which the writer took part. My Regiment wint in with 161 men and Officers. Loss 39 killed and wounded none missing. Federal Commander Gen James H. Wilson. Confederate Commander Gen N. B. Forest.)"

The bible was the hardest relic for me to give up and I have to admit I had to have a serious visit with my conscious about it. But I had given my word to an old man and had no choice. It was precious to me!

Thanks, Joe.

SRH

Thanks for those pics from the "Other Side". My ancestors were likely there at the Gap shooting back with their obsolete MLing Rifled Muskets, if they were frounate enough to have even that, but just couldn't stand up to the Spencer. I do have it on pretty good account though That Wilder really wanted the Henry but New Haven Arms was unable to supply the quanity he neded, so he chose the Spencer instead, desiring to have all arms the same & taking the same cartridges. A wise choice I would say.

2-Piper, Wilder left the regiment shortly after Chickamaugua though they did continue to be known as "The Lightening Brigade". In the beginning they were foot infantry and were going to be armed with standard rifles but Wilder had seen the Spencer demonstrated and was determined to have his men armed with them. The War Department wouldn't go along so he arranged with Spencer for a private purchase. Each man bought his own arm for $35 and those who couldn't afford it signed a note with Wilder (who had good credit) to make monthly payments.