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4 members (SKB, 3 invisible),
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guests, and
9
robots. |
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Key:
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Forums10
Topics38,572
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201 |
 What's the term: Marque CRICINE?( Marque Origine ) And one more being a Aug. Lebeau A Liege. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,852 Likes: 151
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,852 Likes: 151 |
I think it's a poorly stamped 'Marque (d')Origine'
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
As far as I can tell, Wahlreyne was the name if a steel. The "Marque Origine" was part of the same trade mark. This was registered in Belgium Nov 12, 1896 by Fredinand Courally. http://books.google.com/books?id=Sl0MAAA...yne&f=falsePete
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201 |
Thanks for the effort fellas. So I guess there were at least 3 Acier Comprime trademarks: Acier Comprime Cap w/ Chicken Hawk head - Joseph Cap Acier Comprime de Wahlreyne - Ferdinand Courally & Webley, Lebeau - Courally Acier Comprime de Wahlreyne Rust Proof( probably on the order of Polid's Antikorro) May 6th 1913 - Webley, Lebeau - Courally. Acier Leugrann & Metal Vant Horn - Webley - Lebeau - Courally 17 Rue Fond des Tawes, Liege http://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange.fr/source/recherchedesmarques.htmhttp://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange.fr/source/pageS.htmI guess it to be some alloy & possibly some alloy with a nickel or tin component. I wonder who was rolling it for them? J. Novotny also had similar type steel trademarks/stamps.  J. Nowotny's Special steel Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201 |
Like I said chasing ruszniarz Robert Ziegler of Warszawie/Warszawa, Trebacka 4, the waffenhändler is the reason I've headed down the Lebeau-Courally trail(Mr. Highsmith has a high regard for them).  DOSTAWCA(Supplier) CESARSKIEGO TOW.(TOWARZYSTWO) RACYONALNEGO POLOWANIA & I assume the above to be the Polish equivalent of Court Supplier or k.k. Odznaczony 5-ma pierwszorzednemi medalami na ostatnich krajowych wystawach poleca najwiekszy wybór prawdziwie dobrych mysliwskich broni najnowszych systemów po cenach znacznie znizonych Wylaczna sprzedaz broni z lufami John Cockerill Advert notes that either he uses Cockerill steel exclusively or is the exclusive outlet for Cockerill steel tubes. w Warsazawie, Trebacka 4. Cenniki ilustrowane wyselaja sie na zadanie Adolf Robert Xawery Ziegler was a top supplier and sourced Aug. Lebeau - Courally. He was born in Warsaw in 1853 and by 1880 he may have married the daughter of Rogatce Mokotowska as info suggests he took over his shop. But a Robert Ziegler, more than likely his father, was born in 1805 and passed this life in 1875. So Adolf Robert Xawery Ziegler had a foundation with which to begin. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 107 |
Daryl, This is directly from Littlegun http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20lebeau%20gb.htmIn 1865, Auguste Lebeau, known as one of the best arms manufacturers of the Area of Argenteau (large suburbs of Liege) opens its own factory of shotguns of highest quality.
In 1896, death of Auguste Lebeau, Ferdinand Courally ensures continuity, he will be the author in 1931 of very known "the Weapons of Hunting and their Shooting".
In 1902, the firm takes the name of "Webley-Lebeau-Courally".
In 1919, Ferdinand Courally is withdrawn, the firm becomes a limited company ` SA Continental Auguste Lebeau-Courally "under the direction of English Philippe Reeve. About 1930 departure of the Rue Mosselman, 51-53 for the Rue Fond des Tawes, 17-21 (close to the bench of tests) At the beginning of Ph. Reeve, in 1956, the Lebeau-Courally house is repurchased by Joseph Verrees *, already manufacturer of weapons in Liege.
In 1982, with died of Joseph Verrees, his niece Anne-Marie Moermans-Ramakers, the direction begins again. She always currently assumes the perpetuation of the great tradition armuričre inhabitant of Ličge, in the field of the weapons of hunting of great luxury.
SA VERREES & Co - LEBEAU-COURALLY - Rue Saint-Gilles, 386, B-4000 Liege
* Joseph Verrees, bank clerk of 1930 to 1945, opens under his name his own manufacture in 1945. In 1949, it joins another manufacturer: Oste and they create the firm "Verrees and Oste", specialized in the construction of fine weapons.
In 1952, end of association with Oste, the firm becomes "fine Munitions factory Verrees & Co".
In 1954, transfer of the Company of the n° 99 to the n° 386 of the street Saint-Gilles.
In 1956, repurchase of "Lebeau-Courally".So based on the above history. A gun marked only as Lebeau would have been made prior to 1897. Over the years, the firm held several patents in Belgium and perhaps in England. Pete Whenever I read a translation like that, I wonder if it's one of the computer translation deals, or just someone whose English is a bit shaky.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201 |
Robert Ziegler & Czeslaw Lisowski were at the very least crossing sourcing if not best of friends or related. Czeslaw Lisowski was born in the mid to late 1870s(1876?) and died in 1938 in Warsaw. Some time after WWI he was co-owner of J. Sosnowski, which was founded by Jan Jakub Sosnowski, mistrz rusznikarski - master gunsmith & possibly head of the guild at some point, was born in 1827 in Swisloczu and died in Warsaw in 1905. He partnered with Jan Jachimek(circa 1818 in Prague to 1883 Warsaw) under the shingle Jachimek & Sosnowski. Jan Jachimek had been a partner in Koczi & Jachimek with Antoni Koczi(Kotzi). Getting back to J. Sosnowski, he had a son named Bronislaw Sosnowski who was born in 1863 in Warsaw and died in 1942. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post195663Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Whenever I read a translation like that, I wonder if it's one of the computer translation deals, or just someone whose English is a bit shaky.
Larry, I know it is bad. It is on the English part of Alain's site. I know his English is better than that. But with so much to translate, it was most likely a computer. By the way some of the French is not that great either, I guess he never corrects it in any language. Having said that, he offers alot of info not available anywhere else. He recently cut back the site to Belgian makers only. If it ever disappears completely, I have the entire site archived so we don't lose all the knowledge. Pete
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,915 Likes: 201 |
I'm still perplexed by the Wahlreyne term in the steel type but I guess taking it on face value it refers to a recipe(s) more than anything. Also in 1902 with Webley's name added in Webley-Lebeau-Courally, I wonder what stake Webley had and if they were heavily sourcing the mechanics in Liege?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 107
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 107 |
Very good that you've saved it, Pete! It's a valuable resource. And it's at least good that someone who knows guns is handling it. Knowing a language doesn't mean that you know gun terminology. When I first encountered the term "les ailes" in reference to a side by side, I thought to myself: "A gun with wings?" And I even saw English translations using the term "wings". Which meant that the translator didn't know, any more than I did, that in the case of a gun it means sideclips--but it probably meant he didn't know guns, or at least didn't know gun terminology in English, and was simply translating literally. Hell, sometimes going British English to American English with gun terms can be a problem.
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